Arsenal banter 65832

 

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30 May 2017 05:33:03
The start of an interesting summer;
1) Will we keep Wenger, Ox, Ozil and Sanchez?
2) . Will we release/ sell Debuchy, Jenkinson, Sanogo, Ospina, Gibbs and Campbell?
3) . What are the futures of Szczesny, Wilshere, Chambers and Perez?
4) Will we sign 2 or 3 top class players?
The new formation and the FA Cup win has clearly lifted a dark cloud off the club. When we lost to Watford, WBA and Palace, I thought Wenger had lost the players and had to go, but the transition since he changed the formation has been amazing.
On a separate note, I wish Tony Adams would stop embarrassing himself. He was an awesome player and captain at the club, but his managerial record has been poor and he should refrain from criticising Wenger who has been a great manager, winning many trophies and overlooking a tantalum overhaul of the club.

{Ed001's Note - to be fair to Adams he has criticised Wenger's coaching, not management. Many others have also criticised Wenger's coaching, or lack of it mainly, including a large portion of the current playing staff.}

Agree2 Disagree1

30 May 2017 06:35:29
Hi Ed, point taken, but Adams managerial/ coaching career has been atrocious, whilst Wenger has won 3 League titles, a record 7 FA Cups wins, 6 Community Shields (possibly 7) , 1 French title, 1 Coupe de France and 2 Japanese Cups. An inept coach couldn't have accumulated so many trophies. I believe Adams is bitter because Wenger wouldn't employ him as Pat Rice's replacement. Adams, a great footballer is clearly no intellect and he struggled from day one to understand intellectual Wenger and his methods, which have proven to be very successful.

{Ed001's Note - what difference does Adams coaching or managerial career make? He is talking about his experience as a player under Wenger. Wenger has never won a thing as a coach, he has coaches under him. Adams may well be bitter, but that does not mean he is wrong, Wenger does not do the coaching, he always has a coach under him. It is not that unusual, very few managers actually coach in English football, they have always ended up being more of a sporting director/director of football than a coach, even in the past. Even the likes of a legend such as Busby or Paisley did little actual coaching once in the head role. Fergie oversaw coaching, but never coached, Redknapp the same. They, like Wenger, are managers, not coaches.}

30 May 2017 07:12:17
I have to beg to differ, not only is Wenger often see with a stop watch in hand coaching, but of course he has coaches working under him, who of course work according to his instructions. The same goes for other managers, who have coaches working under them, utilising their methods. As a player under Wenger, Adams career flourished and many trophies were won, this was clearly down to Wenger's methods, incuding his coaching.

30 May 2017 08:20:48
And there is our new DM, tenacious :-)

30 May 2017 09:05:02
Thank you Gunner62!

{Ed001's Note - that should have been left for me to reply. Wenger is 'seen' often, but only when there are cameras around. He does not instruct the coaches, he manages them, they produce the coaching plans, not him. He oversees them and decides whether or not he is happy with their work, but he does not do their work for them. And yes, the same does go for all the other managers. They delegate.

As for Adams, he is quite clearly of the belief that his improvement was down more to him stopping drinking and the introduction of proper dietary plans etc, rather than the coaching Wenger provided. I can see his point, Wenger is not a defensive coach and did not work on that in training, the basics were there from George Graham. Adams was given more freedom to play under Wenger, which allowed him to show more quality, but that is all he believes it was.

By the way, I should point out that I am not saying Adams is correct, merely explaining why he has said what he has done.}

30 May 2017 09:33:55
I think Dixon or keown defended dams by explaining that Wenger doesn't do detailed training himself but oversees an environment where the players take more responsibility, eat and train in a disciplined way, learn from each other and it helps them be more flexible on the pitch. whoever it was said that they didn't think Adams was knocking aw management but that he literally didn't/ couldn't coach players - as he hasn't and it's not his style.

Yes RG. Will be interesting to see what happens on those points you raise.

30 May 2017 09:39:02
Ed,
Could you argue the fact (from Wenger's point of view) , that the likes of Adams, Winterburn, Dixon, Keown and Bould did not need coaching?

Admittedly, a lazy way out by Wenger.

{Ed001's Note - no, I would argue, from Wenger's point of view, that he is a manager and not a coach. Which he is.}

30 May 2017 09:55:17
In my experience those who can do and those who can't tend to find fault in what others do.
I don't hear a lot from Conte Klopp Poch or even Pep on how good or bad others are at that jobs, maybe they don't need to talk about others to get noticed.

30 May 2017 10:02:06
How many excellent coaches have we seen fail miserably at management?
The two jobs are completely different.
Recognising our own weaknesses and bringing in people to do what we can't is a great strength imo, where would Richard Brandon be today if he thought he knew everything and no one could do anything better than him?
My guess is he'd own an old Subra instead of his own island.

30 May 2017 12:49:05
To clarify, Adams benefitted enormously under Wenger's coaching methods, which of course he has staff assisting him with. As a coach/ manager, Adams has been a complete failure. Coaching incudes training, advice and guidance, to suggest Wenger doesn't do this or is poor at is simply ludicrous in the extreme, his record clearly shows to the contrary, including the trophies won by Adams under Wengers guidance and the fact that his career was prolonged despite being a self-confessed alcoholic for may years, until his mid 30's, possibly 36, if I recall correctly.

30 May 2017 12:56:31
Hi Gunner62, on the continent the two jobs are often separate, but one of the criticisms in English football has been that the manager often does both roles. Of course Wenger coaches the team and would be horrified to hear to the contrary. Yes, he has coaches working under him, biut they use his coaching menthods and instructions. How many times have we had heard of Wenger's short timed sessions and seen him stop watch in hand? I ladored Adams as a player, would I want him coaching the team? No thanks. When Wenger came to us as manager back in the mid-1990's he brought in new methods of coaching, which the players quickly adopted and success followed.

30 May 2017 13:59:54
RG his ideas were about diet, vitamins, relaxation and team ethics, not fundamental coaching. In fact I read somewhere from lee dixon I think, he said that wenger changed nothing in the back four, except he wanted them to play 10 yards further up the pitch. He isn't known for his coaching and tactics in the football world. Its no secret.







 

 

 
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