25 Jan 2025 20:41:39
Even sky have called it out:
Arsenal beat Wolves 1-0, but Myles Lewis-Skelly's first-half red card for clipping Matt Doherty dominated the headlines. Here are five issues we have found with Michael Oliver and VAR's decision:
One - you don't see red cards for that. "He's 70 yards from his own goal, " said Tim Sherwood. That is the starting point. How can it be serious foul play on the edge of Wolves' box?
And if it is serious foul play for the contact on Lewis-Skelly, then he has split seconds to make that challenge. How can the 18-year-old have intended that? More common sense was needed.
25 Jan 2025 22:02:07
Pressed post too soon ?
Two - VAR gave it. The serious foul play call was checked and confirmed by VAR Darren England. See above for the common-sense point to an official who had replays, slow-motions and time to fully assess it.
Three - Joao Gomes' challenge was arguably worse. How the Wolves midfielder got a yellow for a seemingly higher, more aggressive and more dangerous challenge and Lewis-Skelly got his marching orders is simply baffling. The consistency did not even last half a match.
Four - Michael Oliver doesn't like to "impact games negatively by overreacting" apparently. That's what PGMOL chief Howard Webb said last season when Mateo Kovacic avoided a red card for Man City at Arsenal. Did he need to send Lewis-Skelly off there?
Five - More freak dismissals for Arsenal - Declan Rice and Leandro Trossard were both sent off for kicking the ball away - but have we seen any since? Joao Pedro's penalty at Brighton despite William Saliba seemingly getting the ball. Arsenal are getting freak decisions this season and it seems to be heavily weighted against them - so it is little wonder their fans are becoming increasingly frustrated.
25 Jan 2025 22:43:55
Hi Eden I don't think age can be a consideration 18 or 28 it's not a red card offence for me.
The ref has got it badly wrong and if the FA overturn the card no long term damage is done considering we got 3pts.
25 Jan 2025 23:56:29
Stats before todays game which make you wonder
Oliver has only refereed Liverpool more than he has Arsenal (57 v 54) , but has flashed 96 yellows at Arsenal players to 83 given to Liverpool.
Astonishingly, he has sent off seven Arsenal players during those games ā more than any other side he has been in charge of ā and only one Liverpool.
He has never sent off a Manchester City player, despite refereeing them 50 times.
Var was just as bad if not worse than him today.
26 Jan 2025 02:07:48
Liverpool fan here and we too agree that it was a ridiculous red card. Not the last man, in his own half, two covering arsenal defenders, and nothing malicious in the tackle. At best, it's a yellow. Hopefully it gets overturned.
As much as we want to be ahead of you this season, fairness is still fairness and all fans should come together to call out these kind of wrong calls and lobby for higher refereeing standards.
26 Jan 2025 10:36:38
Thanks Dracred, appreciate your input ?.
26 Jan 2025 11:55:52
Hi Dracred, in so many case's the ref's are enforcing the rules made by the FA but they are not doing so consistently across the board and this is where the problem lays most of the time, but not yesterday, that was a yellow card all day long.
With Rice and Trossard sendings offs earlier in the season they kicked the ball away, admittedly not very far especially in Rice's case but how far is to far and how far is not far enough to warrant a red card? It's extremely difficult for refs to be right in the eye's of the public and enforce the FA rules at the same time, so I have sympathy on those two card's.
Var is absolutely useless in this area especially because it doesn't use common sense that is required to see difference between the crime committed the punishment handed out, I think you need a panel of 3 ex players who have recent lived experience at Premier league level who genuinely know and understand all the tricks of the trade and can rationally and calmly make the call on such incidents with the insight refs Var and fans simply don't have.
Obviously the 3 ex players identities would need to be kept secret given the amount of crazy people who have access to social media and would doubtless target them and their families no matter what decisions they made but in my opinion we have to take away all the pressure and the power to make sensibly decisions on an extremely consistent basis away from the refs shoulders alone. Var should be capable of doing off sides and such but lived understanding of the game is clearly beyond their capabilities.
26 Jan 2025 17:40:19
Yeah, var should definitely be independent, they're just judging themselves at the minute.
Also the rule that they have to make an on field decision is stupid, if they didn't see it, just say I didn't see it clearly what can vary see? Because seemingly they just make a call even if they haven't properly seen it, var shrugs and goes yeah, you could see it that way and won't overturn it unless it's really really obviously wrong.
In rugby the ref says this is what I saw, the TMO says what they're seeing, they talk it through, everyone hears the reasoning and I don't think there's many complaints.
There's no transparency in why decisions are made in football. Just that was the correct decision today, the exact same thing might be different next week, but that will also be correct and if a manager complains, they get fined.
26 Jan 2025 19:58:17
Liverpool fan here too, we were chatting about this on the live chat and then after too - never a red card. Pure ridiculous, on the edge of the opposition 18 yard box so hardly goal scoring opportunity, he caught him, it happens - free kick, yellow card at worst - crazy it was a straight red
Crazier still VAR didn't tell him to go and look at it
Endo was took out in our match, truy an awful challenge. Their player got a yellow but honestly if you put those 2 clips together and ask what was the red and what was the yellow, there's not a soul would pick it as it was actually officiated, just a crazy red card that - Sherwood 100% right too.
26 Jan 2025 20:11:37
Hi Bill two different officials make two completely different decisions, I think that's life mate. What is needed in my opinion is one informed panel that rules on all controversial decisions, I guess a little bit like Tenis where each manager gets two challenges per game on ref and Var decisions.
26 Jan 2025 21:41:11
I've had a rethink.
I now think each club should have 7 challenges per season where the manager can ask for an independent panel to over rule var and the ref if they genuinely believe an injustice has been done, once each club has used its challenges for the season that's it.
I think this would limit the amount times over emotional managers complain about every decision that goes against their team but would give them the opportunity to question where they were genuinely convinced an injustice had happened. The managers would rely on their players to be honest with them so they didn't waste their challenges when a player knows full well he's blagging and trying to con the ref's but would allow incidents at both Liverpool and Arsenal yesterday to be rectified if the club had challenges left.
I think this would work well for everyone players, manager and refs and var too because if a manager chose not to use a challenge then they could hardly rant and rave throughout the post match interview as the obvious question would be " why didn't you use a challenge if your so convinced ".
Obviously the idea can be improved but something needs to change.
29 Jan 2025 12:10:15
Aye gunner62 that seems to be the issue though doesn't it, different officials making different decisions
As I said above, watching the Liverpool game we saw Endo just taken out. That looked brutal, yellow card thankfully he was ok but took a knee right in the jaw. Now you put that clip together with the Arsenal one and tell people one is yellow, one is red and ask them to pick and there ain't nobody picking the Arsenal one as the more dangerous of the two.
Though, maybe the PGMOL are just taking the p*ss out of us all - see they have included the kick to the ribs from Doku on MacAllister in their high and dangerous challenges discussion lol but fail to mention that the referee (Oliver) and the 2 VAR refs both agreed there was nothing in it and no penalty was given yet is the poster now for dangerous high tackles - couldn't make this up!