Arsenal banter 71474


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09 Oct 2019 17:24:37
On Ozil - opinion of him for and against both have valid points. Sometimes he's not the hardest working, but when he puts in a real shift, detractors ignore it. Sanchez ran for fun, but people that rated him highly overlooked the number of times he gave the ball away and the team had to cover him. For me, even though ozil's had little game time, he's still got an incredible record of assists and has NEVER played with a decent defence behind him, or given a chance to play enough with Auba or Laca or both. It seems completely unfair to judge him until he's played with other players at a similar level. To have an artist on the bench, criticised because we didn't rate his finger painting because we didn't give him brushes, even though he's still sold more work than nearly everyone else is craziness. That said, if Emery's tactics (or lack of) means there's no place for ozil, that's a real shame. But I for one think ozil has done well, but not hit the levels he could have and still could.

On Emery- I liked his apparent detailed approach, but I have 2 main concerns.
1 - I can't see any defensive improvement (obvious) but worse is that whatever he thinks the reason is, he's made zero attempt to tweak formations or lineup. If we're playing a number of players out position and conceding lots of chances, I'd expect him to make adjustments. He's not, and therefore he either thinks it's the best we can do, or can't see the problems, or doesn't know how. None of those seem good to me. That said, if with Tierney and bellerin back we suddenly click and become solid, then he only needs to be judged on results. I don't think that's going to happen though.
2 - I'm a bit biased about his treatment of ozil but I think his handling of some player management is terrible. Xhaka as a nailed on starter, Torreira often a sub and banishing ozil (and don't forget at least a couple of players went on media to say how much of a positive difference ozil makes to the team) i think will demoralise the team. Young players may see the opportunity, but the seniors they could try and learn from will be low on morale and not playing as well as they could when they do play.

But it could be worse. We could be spurs or man u.

Agree1 Disagree0

09 Oct 2019 18:17:17
Top post Jim!

09 Oct 2019 18:36:30
Impossible for me not to agree because I do rate both Ozil and Torreira but don't rate either Energy or Xhaka.
I'd personally keep both the former who have both excelled in the premier league at times and let both the latter go as they both look complete lost at premier league level.
The one area I see differently is changing things around and in my opinion Emery never stops changing things and players around, I'd like to see an identity, an Arsenal style apposed to the pact work quilt of tactics styles and starting line ups design to confuse the opposition but ultimately end up confusing our own players more.

09 Oct 2019 18:43:43
Ok jim, respect your views but my views on Ozil are documented, agree with your analysis of torreira and xhaka. can't agree with your assessment of Emery, i think he changes things regularly, that's the way he manages, don't know where you have been looking but that's not how i see it. As far as the defence is concerned, we are not defending well but our first 5 games we let in 8 goals, the last 6 let in 3. There has been improvement but room for more.

09 Oct 2019 18:59:11
But that's mostly from our opponents poor finishing Steve, we've conceded the most shots of any team in Europes top 5 leagues! And he does change things regularly, but it's rarely an improving change, klopp couldn't contain himself when asked if he was expecting us to play a diamond, which caught him off guard, but only by its stupidity of playing to their strengthsand redusing our own by confusing our players.

09 Oct 2019 19:01:36
Watford have managed just 4 goals in 8 games this season and 50% of those goals came against us, we concede more goal scoring opportunities then any other team in Europe's top 5 Leagues, I just can't see where the improvement is Steve mate, impossible as I thought it would be we've actually become worse defensively under Emery than Arsene.
I genuinely don't see any signs of improvement whatsoever.

09 Oct 2019 19:14:37
Eden, you see things your way and and i mine, we can all pick negatives and positives and put spin on to suit. Emery was and on this site accused of not getting things right at the start of the game but changing things to get it right, so why couldn't he do it from the start. Stats as we have assertained as can be bent to suit as well. Stats don't exactly win you games and points. In my time I've seen some stats that actually only tell half a story, like us having 27 shots on goal in a game 3 years ago, we scored no goals with 3 on target and lost 2-0 with if i remember 1 own goal but i seem to think it was 2. But like has been said, stats are stats wins draws and losses are that.

09 Oct 2019 19:30:21
In my opinion Eden it's definitely our midfield that's the reason we concede so many chances and actually a mixture of Leno's brilliant saves, the opposition poor finishing and strange as it sounds individual good defending at times from our defenders too, I do realise how weird that sounds :-) .
I never have and still don't believe our individual defenders are really bad players but are made to look awful from the overexposure they get because of our midfield.

09 Oct 2019 19:52:00
I totally agree Steve that stats are often an unreliable indicator and can be manipulated to show what ever picture anyone wishes chose to show.
I think using our own eyes and being honest and objectively about what we see with ourselves and those we share our opinions with is a far better more reliable indicator if we are prepared to put our preprogrammed bias of how we want things to be to one side.

09 Oct 2019 20:12:40
Oh by the way I meant all of us not just certain people putting their previous bias away :-) .
I just the more open to seeing things differently to how we've seen them before the more interesting the debate than us all holding onto and defending our original stance.

09 Oct 2019 20:54:55
Gunner, i have never once stated our defence is good or anywhere near good, why people keep telling me can't i see with my own eyes, of course i can and i have said. We are not the greatest at defending and we have to get better but while we are putting points on the board and winning games, that will either have to improve in the future or not. Either way our games record will be there for all to see and we win and we are ok we lose and we are in trouble. People see things however they want to see it and that goes for all on here. Everyone on here has a blind spot and everyone on here isn't right in what they are saying, its opinion.

09 Oct 2019 21:10:10
Hi gents. I realise I wrote some of the OP badly. When I said I expect Emery to tweak things, I didn't mean change Pepe for Nelson, or Willock for Ceballos - he's obviously trying his best to copy Ranieri there.

I meant that we had 3 fit centrebacks at the start of the season, and his first choice were clearly Sokratis and Luiz. We only had Kolasinac (a LWB) for LB, and AMN (midfielder) or Chambers for RB. AMN has been shown up defensively end of last season (not all his fault of course) but AMN and Kolasinac far better going forward. Emery chose to play a back 4, generally as Kol, Sok, Luiz, AMN.

He's also generally playing 433. Rigidly selecting Xhaka, and I think always playing Guendouzi, with either Ceballos or Willock as the central attacking midefielder. Guendouzi seems to be the deisgnate ball carrier from deep, and Xhaka seems a bit more shackled, but his errors this season let alone last show he's not a defensive midfielder.

What I meant was, he's not tried Mavrapanos/ Mustafi/ Chambers with Luiz in the midfield 3, or Chambers in the midfield 3 (having played excellently as a DM last season. He's not tried Torreira and Guendouzi - with or without Xhaka. He's not tried a flat midfield 4. he's not tried 3 CB with Kolasinac in his stronger LWB role and AMN in a stronger RWB role (opposed to RB) . He's not tried Ozil behind a front 2 with 3 more defensive midfielders.

If we looked tight defensively, I can understand not trying it, but he's pretty much just swapped out a few players. I'm happy to be corrected, but I've not seen him try to address the defensive frailties like that at all. That's what I meant by him not tweaking things.

09 Oct 2019 21:18:18
Absolutely Steve it's all about opinions but that's my point rather than simply state our opinions and rely on stats to explain our points and what we see and how we see it so we might all come away with food for thought.
I've asked many times what those who rate Xhaka explain what they think he brings to the team so I might possibly see something I'm missing but so far the only replys I've had have been Emery Arsene and country all picked him but that doesn't really give a personal opinion on what he brings to the team and let's face it, Arsene Emery Southgate and Fergie all played Danny Welbeck but people weren't up in arms about us not giving him a contract ( yeah I know about the injuries but they are not the only reason) .
I just think it would make a nice change if we all stopped defending our opinions and enjoyed more open debate with open minds.

09 Oct 2019 21:38:54
Abouts Xhaka, to be fair Gunner, I defended him for ages! hahahaha. I thought/ still feel he had lots of good attributes (sizes, strength, a leader, a great long range pass and initially a long range shot) but he was inaitally left covering Ramsey running forward, and Mustafi behind him, while he was still settling in. I thought it was unfair to criticise him when noone was playing well around him. I thought the fact the team had no vocal leader, and everyone always picked him meant I'd not cirticise too early.

Although I think he might be able to do some sort of job for us, he has shown he's too rash at critical times and doesn't provide enough defensive cover. As he's being played alongside 2 others in a midfield 3 who push forward, somethings got to give. Our front 3 is very strong, even rotating players, and both Guendouzi and Torreira are better defensivley, so for me, there's no room for Xhaka in the starting lineup until we improve defensively and from a man-management perspective, surely it'd help him focus and driver others to try and get into the team.

09 Oct 2019 21:52:00
Xhaka, is an Emery blind spot, i'm not happy about him playing, in fact i hate him playing but for me results are at this time more important. Emery for me is trying to accommodate xhaka, he shouldn't in my opinion, just like he shouldn't any other player. When and if results take a turn for the worse, that will be one thing i will throw at him. The defence in some way he hasn't had an option until now but while we are getting results, i'm not going to start beating Emery for a decision i think is bad. In fact the worst. Unlike many on here there are lots of positives to be happy about, like ozil not being a regular, like mustaffi demoted, like Gouendouzi, like willock, like saka, like chambers, like we score every game. So at the moment there is enough for me to chill and enjoy ribbing my utd and spud mates, who i have hated for the past few years. Lol.

09 Oct 2019 22:00:15
I get what you are saying jim but some are already calling him the tinkermam. As far as the changes you are on about, maybe with not having a recognised RB or LB, he did feel he could. Maybe if we start losing regular he may do that, i don't know. We have some players coming back from unjuries and it should increase his opinions more.

09 Oct 2019 22:09:22
" Unlike many on here " love it Steve, your so open to seeing things differently :-)

09 Oct 2019 22:27:12
Hi Jim I've watched Xhaka and everything I've ever heard positive about him is there but it's just so infrequently seen, yes he can hit a nice long pass but it's not something that happens on a stand out basis and yes he has a thundbolt shot on him but how many times is it effective each season and against Liverpool at home last season i saw him sprint back and make an excellent goal saving tackle but how often do we see him sprint at all?
His inclusion beyond question is a mystery to almost everyone and I personally would love to have the mystery explained to me in a way I can understand and make sense of .

09 Oct 2019 22:48:28
Gumner, some on here are turning into right moaners. Lol.

09 Oct 2019 23:06:21
I know Steve mate but maybe with our willingness to be open and at least truly consider others opinions rather than automatically simply argue against them we can be trend setters :-)
Leno first!
Top 3 assets
Worst 3 failings
Maybe we could go through each player during the international break naming the best 3 assets we can possibly find while also accepting they're worst 3 failings.
It will help pass the time and who knows some of us might walk away with a different view on some individuals.

09 Oct 2019 23:53:05
But Steve pointing out bad things doesn't have to be seen as moaning, I can see positives, I can see negatives, this is just a place to discuss arsenal, what we like or don't like, no one who actually matters is ever going to see it. If everyone just comes on with praise when we win or critism when we lose it would be pointless. If we win but played rubbish or win, but played well that's when the best discussion is in my opinion.

09 Oct 2019 23:56:14
Leno, tall, nice hair, big hands.

10 Oct 2019 00:21:10
Steve - I’m about the performance while we are building the side rather than the results. As performance will drive long term success rather than fortunate results papering over cracks and lack of improvements. We are in a revulsion orientated game so I get your point but until we are competing then it’s performances that count for me for now

That’s maybe why we see things differently - that and you’re just happy due to the change and Spurs going backwards 😉.

10 Oct 2019 00:25:04

Assets - his defensive and tactical capabilities can’t get worse

Weaknesses - coaching, defence, midfield, tactics, man management, tinkering decision making and pointless shouting from the sidelines plus his love for Pepe and Granit


10 Oct 2019 00:43:22
Well in my opinion as long as emery keep starting xhaka as long as I feel he doesn’t know what he’s doing. As for the results we are getting is thank to Auba and co not emery, because his tactics actually makes us concede goals.

10 Oct 2019 03:26:35
Sy, your hatred knows no bounds. Sheffield utd next, i bet you are supporting the blades. Lol.

10 Oct 2019 06:51:11
Emery - a decent 1st season finishing a place higher with more points and reached the EL Final. This season we are sitting in 3rd place a point behind City and have lost away to unbeaten CL winners Liverpool. He has achieved this without 3 of our best defenders and Lacazette out injured. I like the look of the squad, the use of our exceptional youngsters and the ruthlessness when shipping players out or when selecting the team.
Ozil hasn’t adapted in recent seasons to the increasing intensity of the PL, nor to the modern pressing tactics. He clearly doesn’t fit in our best starting line up, nor possibly in our second eleven.

10 Oct 2019 08:16:08
Steve you must have kept a little black book of all the things people said to you when Arsene was manager and are now recycling them :-)
It says so much that all the things that were said of Arsenes Arsenal are now being said of Emerys Arsenal by neutrals and pundits and the only real difference being some of us who thought Arsene was wrong about everything now think Emery is doing a good job and some of those who thought Arsene was doing a great job now think Emery is rubbish.
We're a strange lot us humans :-)

10 Oct 2019 15:21:43
Emery is not good enough for arsenal has no clue about tactics, no clue about defence, and has been lucky that Man Utd and spurs are off the pace as we wouldn’t be were we are now, and I hope and prey they don’t give him the option of the 3rd year
Ozil is just a lazy waste of 350k a week
Xhkaka isn’t good enough but will start.

10 Oct 2019 17:29:39
No splinters in your bum from sitting on the fence Welsh :-)

10 Oct 2019 19:08:19
Well that’s exactly my thought welsh mate, if it weren’t for our rivals big failure last season we could be in a much worst position, and the fact we bottled it at the end of last season against what we call a winnable games explain it all. Also with just about 99.9% of football fans, pundits and everyone’s involved in football don’t rate Xhaka, and emery’s failing to see that he has no effect on the pitch what so ever makes me question his decisions, arsene was blasted for for playing xhaka and for his leaking defense, and we still have the same two problems but some opt to accept it and call it improvement.

10 Oct 2019 21:39:42
Dropping Xhaka would not only improve the team instantly but also do so much to galvanise totally bemused fans, some fans are counting his yellow cards just waiting for the next one so the FA do what Emery refuses to do, that's a ridiculous situation that just should never have been allowed to deteriat into.

10 Oct 2019 23:42:47
I’m one of those g62 mate, I never wished for anyone to get hurt but sometimes I get this evil thought of him pulling a little hamstring 🙈.

11 Oct 2019 07:58:25
What a crazy situation where people have to hope something will force the manager into doing what's good for the team rather than thinking the manager being wise enough to do what's best for the team by himself.

Players being asked who should be captain and waiting for the rules to to force a decision the manager is incapable of making himself, I wonder why Fergie didn't think of doing that Moe :-) .

11 Oct 2019 09:30:47
I’m hoping the board does something so we can start again with a manager that can address the issues and ensure we extract the maximum value from the investment in defence and attack. I don’t think he’s really great at coaching either but especially defence.

11 Oct 2019 12:00:47
I'm also counting the cards! 😂 And still bitter about our absolutely diabolical form the end of last season, we only needed 3 points from Everton, Palace, wolves, Leicester and Brighton we got 1! 😂 Jesus, I still don't understand it! I remember after the Watford game saying it was a shocking performance, being out played despite playing most of the game with a man advantage and being told I was overreacting, we then got 4 points from the next 6 games! 😂 So I'm apprehensive about getting excited about us being 3rd to protect myself from the disappointment if our from drops off a cliff again!

11 Oct 2019 16:07:31
62, what does Fergie know about football he should learn a thing or two from Emery.
I think Emery is very insecure so has has to pick on one player to make him a scape goat and prove his man management in some way and that’s what I think he is doing with ozil, and you have an ass kisser in xhaka telling him yes boss you are the best and tell about his team mate so he looks good in front of the boss lol.
Eden, I echo your thoughts mate, last season when we went 20 games unbeaten everyone was like that’s it and boom the honeymoon period was over and come at the end of the season when we needed one win mr Emery bottled it big time like his usual self.

11 Oct 2019 17:51:50
In my opinion Moe Emery Just isn't a top club manager, Europa league football and qualification are his limit and champions league football and champions league players are Just above his abilty to handle.
Maybe at a club the size of Norwich Palace or Leicester he could manage to maintain premier league status with the odd top 10 finish and cup run but at a big club he just looks completely out of his level.

12 Oct 2019 06:14:10
Odd top 10 finish?
We finished 5th last season!

12 Oct 2019 08:29:10
Yes we certainly did Mark but we are not Palace Norwich or Leicester mate, Emery won the League once at PSG and Brendan won it lots of times at Celtic, Brendan was out of his depth at Liverpool and Emery is out of his depth at Arsenal, 5th in the weakest top 4 race in memory isn't exactly something to put top of your CV mate.
Neil Warnock is an excellent championship manager but nice bloke that he is he's just not a premier league manager like Eddie Howe Roy Hodgson Brendan are but who are in turn not top 4 champions league managers, horses for courses.

15 Oct 2019 10:32:49
Please tell me steve isn’t complaining about someone moaning, because that’s all he’s done the 5 years I’ve been on here.



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