Arsenal banter 70183

 

Use our rumours form to send us arsenal transfer rumours.


(single word yields best result)

11 Feb 2019 19:20:30
Well, if Rambo's deal is true. Why would any decent player not at a top 2 club ( good chance of silverware ) contemplate signing on for their existing club. Rambo's deal only makes sense if you get him for free. Therefore, any decent player at a club outside of City and Pool in the EPL would be stupid not to follow the Rambo approach! So the clubs with the most won't loose their players for free - ironic!

I know it's not as simple as this but the future looks grey for the non-elite clubs.

Agree0 Disagree0

11 Feb 2019 19:51:35
Make sure your players have two years on thier contract at all times is the answer surely to stop them running down thier contract.
If you give a player a 5 year contract and at the end of year 3 he won't extend then sell taking away his ability to run down his contract and leave for free 2 years later.
Arsenal have managed contracts very very poorly in Just about every way you can imagine hence we keep losing players for nothing or having to give them outrageous wages not to leave for free.

11 Feb 2019 20:35:53
So we end up selling our best players?

Don’t players need to agree to be sold and to whom - the Risk before was being out of contract. Now it can be a benefit.

11 Feb 2019 20:52:00
It's not ideal but it's better than nothing, quite literally in our case.
Yes of course players need to agree to be sold and too who they are sold to which is right and proper but the clubs need to take back the power from the players and the only way I can think of is when you get down to Just 2 years remaining give the players 3 choices
1 extend on reasonable terms
2 leave for club of your choosing if they match our valuation
3 run down your contract training alone away from the rest of hhe squad with absolutely no chance of playing for 2 years.
Would Juventus give 400k a week to a player who hadn't kicked a ball competently for 2 years? Would Wales cap a player who who hadn't player for 2 years?
Arsenal players have been holding the club to ransom and only by getting tough will the club regain control of the situation. Liverpool seem to sell before it comes to this as do other clubs so it's not impossible for us to do the same.
we need to stop it because the players obviously won't do it for themselves because it hurts them financially.

11 Feb 2019 21:27:29
I understand the logic 62, and have seen others say similar, but if you sign a 5 year contract as an IT person, andyoir employer thinks you're really good at your job, then in year 3 try to get you to sign an extension and you say that you would like to stick to the contract both parties agreed to and they then send you to work in the cellar using Word Perfect on an old PC with 5.25 inch floppy discs and can no longer interact with your work colleagues, would that seem reasonable to anyone except the employer? I wonder if there's even some kind of constructive dismissal case?

There's nothing stopping either party suggesting a longer or shorter contract, with the associated risks. Other clauses could be added too.

I baulk at the money in football, but don't think a footballer should be treated badly by a club unless they weren't upholding the terms of their contract. Maybe longer term contracts with wage reviews or performance clauses etc. but I don't think punishing players will have the desired outcome and would probably put players off joining such a Draconian club?

11 Feb 2019 21:48:11
Football has become every man and club for themselves Jim and every penny that is demanded from both has to come from somewhere mate.
Arsenal have lost out financially again to a player who gets a fantastic deal beyond there true ability but the fans will Want the club to spend despite no fee coming in, so where do Arsenal get thier money from for the replacement?
The fans is my guess.

11 Feb 2019 22:59:11
The biggest issue is - we aren’t competing. If you compete, you keep. Look at City with KDB.

Fans need to revolt - sky and stadium goers to really make an impact but it won’t happen.

In theory you make sense 62 but not in reality - could we afford to never t play Rambo, Ozil and Sanchez all at th3 same time and put into the reserves. FFP would really kick in, would sponsors be upset and players sign for us.

If we are run of the mill then we will have run of the mill players or make stars to see them leave like other clubs across Europe.

11 Feb 2019 23:34:28
Other clubs don't have players running down contracts as often as we do SY mate so there must be a different way that actually works.
Who was the last big name to leave Liverpool or Spurs for free?
They sold Bale Suarez and Courtinho for big bucks while we got held to ransom and look at them and us now?
How do Spurs keep Kane on a fraction of what we pay Ozil or Ramsey wanted from us?
This is a problem we've allowed to get out of control.

11 Feb 2019 20:03:37
More fools juve, that's what i say. I doubt he will pay his way with value. that's if he manages to improve his availability.

11 Feb 2019 22:43:12
Perhaps, but most people I deal with seem pretty mercenary about their own jobs, so why do footballers have to be overly honorable?

Ultimately, workers in any form have only their skills and labour to earn their money, and if the rest of the world tries to earn as much as possible, why shouldn't a footballer? Especially if it's just the board or owner who will benefit from any savings. If they do their best and don't break the terms of their contract, to me it doesn't seem right to punish them. Why does it matter that Ramsey has got a good deal for himself? Most fans wanted him gone years ago and AW brought him back in despite criticism. He then had some great performances and some poorer ones, but he always worked hard and won us some matches. He's not been given the chance in his primary role as ozils there, but even now without Ozil He's not played in the hole. He's stuck to his contract. If he can get loads more money elsewhere, why should he stay? If someone chooses to stay when they could go elsewhere (like Kane) they should be applauded.

A contract is a commitment and risk for both parties. Carroll got a 7 year deal at West ham didn't he? Perhaps clubs need to re-evaluate their youth setups, who they choose to play and why, and contracts. At the same time, fans should maybe decide if they want more superstar players and demand to always be challenging to win, or whether they want something more sustainable and honourable despite lack of success. AW gave us the latter and the fans said money and success was more important. His approach was part of the reason I was willing to overlook so much else, as I value the approach more than results and thought that it was possible to make tweaked to bring succrss. But in future, every now and again you might get a Porch or AW that gets players and fans buy in and brings success in an honourable way all round, but i think the short-term success/ money approach seems generally more likely.

12 Feb 2019 06:48:31
62,- I think Kane likes being King and would love to make history at Spurs. He has another contract in him and won’t be there if they don’t compete for the title. They keep competing so he stays and is king.
Liverpool are run better than us from that position but are competing and on the way up.

12 Feb 2019 08:18:30
That's fine Jim as long as you remember the money has to come from somewhere in order to pay someone far too much you have to pay someone else far too little, there's the way of the world mate.
If we think that having multi billionaires is great then we also have to think poverty for others is great too.
It's simple mathematics that the cake is only so big and the only choice is how you divide it,
Aaron's walking away for free will have a negative impact at Arsenal somewhere Whether it's on youth investment or ground staff or asking the fans to pay more the money lost simply has to impact elsewhere. it would be lovely if everyone was a billionaire and no one went without but that isn't reality unfortunately.

12 Feb 2019 09:55:09
The fact is SY we have ran our business very poorly while others have ran there business much more sensibly with much more foresight.
People used to talk about what great shape Arsene would leave us in but in truth that's not what's happend.

12 Feb 2019 10:13:24
Good luck to Ramsey at Juventus and on getting an amazing salary.
Post David Dein, Gazidis and Wenger handled contracts terribly and hence where we are now. Raul Sanllehi recently confirmed that signings usually get an initial 5 year deal and as soon as that runs down a couple of seasons decision have to be made and contracts can no longer be allowed to run down.
These huge salaries, such as Ramsey's, can cause problems as other other players at a club want parity. Imagine what Ramsey thought knowing that Ozil had secured a £350,000 a week deal. I know these salaries are often paid as there no transfer fee involved, but that is soon forgotten when players are playing for the same team on the same pitch.

12 Feb 2019 11:08:51
Aaron Ramsey is an individual who has done the best for himself but let's not forget that had he stayed at Arsenal on his current wages for the rest of his career he certainly wouldn't have ended up penniless.
5 million a year at Arsenal which after tax is 3 million a year take home so with a career that started at 18 and will probably end at 34 years old Aaron would have left the game with around 20 millions in the bank even had he stayed at Arsenal.
If he is lucky enough to live another 80 years after he retires he would have been left with £5000 a week to live on for the rest of his life, that's not allowing for interest over those possible 80 years either.
Now he's joined Juventus he will probably be left with 40 million to retire on so £10,000 a week for life after he's finish playing.
£5000 a week or 10,000 a week every single week for the rest of your life, is there a difference in reality? Can you spend 5k a week ever single week, week in week out for 80 years? What will Aaron be able to do when he retires from Juventus that he wouldn't be able to do had he stayed at Arsenal?
Once your financially secure for life surely one of the greatest gifts is choice to do what you really want to do apposed to what most people have to do even if they hate it in order to put a roof over their head and feed their families.
Aaron like Mesut Sanchez Theo and others did not have to hold Arsenal to ransom out of necessity they all did it through personal choice and those left behind the fans the staff everyone will have to pay for these players personal choices, it's just worth remembering when congratulating Aaron that somebody or lots and lots of people somewhere has to lose out to unable him to achieve this extra good fortune.

One man's greed is another man's going without, that's how it works.

12 Feb 2019 11:27:38
I agree 61.
And 62, don't get me wrong. Honestly, I would rather we tried our home grown players or younger buys like Gnabry, Holding, AMN, Nelson etc and have a wage cap that went up on line with inflation or something, but I'm happy seeing how we compete like tha and the challenge of trying to make things work like that. That's why I supported Wenger's approach, but Others want trophies and that will cost money. As you say, it costs the fans money. But you can't have it every way and demand competitive clubs that look to buy star players rather than develop their own, then expect players to - the commodities - to be blindly loyal and ignore what's going on around them, when in the case of Ozil, Ramsey, giroud got so much stick from their own fans.

12 Feb 2019 11:53:39
Hi Jim to me it's like playing cards you got to know when to stick or twist.
Kos will walk away from the game very financially secure but much less wealthy than he could have done had he not been so loyal to Arsenal
While Theo will retire from the game much wealthier than Kos while only ever being half the player because he held the club to ransom everytime his contract got close to running out.
I think like all other walks of life you've got to know and accept who you are dealing with on an individual basis.
Once you see the £ signs in a players eyes rather than passion let go for as much you can get because those who still have passion for you will want what's best for you and them equally and won't hold you to ransom, if a player sees only what's good for him then he will eventually act on that without a second thought for you. Jack Theo the list is endless of average players doing well out of but not for Arsenal hence we are where we are now.
I'm not against people doing well for themselves at all but I don't like out and out greedy and totally selfish people very much personally.
Vincent Kompany? Now I like him a lot as a person.

12 Feb 2019 12:38:24
united seem to have 1 year extention options as standard which seems a really good policy, i don't know why we don't add those. spurs seem to renew contracts much earlier if players are really performing, kane signed his last extention with still 4 years to run to take it to 6 with a fair sized increase he would be mad not to take it, but the club also keep maximum control over him and the increases can be less if they are more regular and keeps morale high if you're getting pay rises because you're performing well, not just because your contracts ending and they don't want you to go for free.

12 Feb 2019 13:18:05
The United method makes sense to me Eden and once a player doesn't want to extend then accept his decision as if he was working his 2 year notice and listen to sensible offers but clubs have to make a player running down his contract much much less desirable than compromising and Woking out a solution that is mutually beneficial to club and player alike.
I don't like the idea of players being forced to stay where they are not happy but neither do I like the idea any club but especially Arsenal being held to ransom.
I wish Aaron Ramsey the best even though I dislike the way he has manipulated the situation to his own ends he is only 50% to blame by for taking advantage of a poorly run club that's is equally 50% to blame for for its own misfortune.

12 Feb 2019 22:54:53
62 - are they being held to ransom? A player has a finite contract with risk once out of contract eg injury etc. If his market value is 400k per week due to the money in the game and can secure his family’s financial future for the next generation - then why should he not do it? Rambo has a young son. Why shouldn’t he want to secure the best future for him etc?

If I could secure my kids a great future - is my loyalty to my family or my employers?

What would you do

Me - family wins.

13 Feb 2019 09:19:05
Nothing wrong at all with looking after your self and your family SY of course everyone wants that but it's about how much you value yourself and your family above every one and anything else that's important in my opinion.
Is it OK to move your money abroad to a tax haven in an attempt to avoid funding the NHS because that's good for you and yours but to call on the emergency services should you need them?
Aaron and his family would hardly have gone short in the future had he signed a new contract at his current wages and shown loyalty to a club that has supported him through his many injuries or had he signed a one year extention but left the club that has been extremely good to him with a transfer fee and himself with a mere 200k rather than 400k a week between now and retirement.
Should he bring up his children to think it's all about them and nothing and no one else matters and that it's fine to milk anyone and everyone you can for as much as you can regardless of how good people have been to you in the past?
It's all about price SY mate and if we all want more than our fair share then someone somewhere has to pay the price for us having too much.
Arsenal won't receive any fee for Aaron so we won't be able to replace him unless we find the money elsewhere and while what's good for Aaron and Juventus it will inevitably be bad for Arsenal fans in one way shape or form.
We should all aim to be comfortable in life and for niether ourselves or our children to have to struggle but for me personally I think Gordon gecko ( or whatever the character was called) was very wrong and greed isn't a good thing at all.







 

 

 
Log In or Register to post

User
Pass
Remember me

Forgot Pass