Arsenal banter 69716


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05 Nov 2018 16:01:31
Regards the "leaked" European super league formation. I for one are 100% against it. Your national league should be respected as the best and only league. The set up as it is works and works well. If a European super league was set up, it would be set up to placate and favour the richest clubs and the control over finances be on existent. Teams like citeh, real, barca, psg and a few others don't like the restraints on them by ffp. The prem is already geared to the top clubs and a ESL would be far worse. A national league should always be the no1 league. Apart from the cost of travel and other things, the fans will be the ones that suffer in more ways than one. Fans should be given a say in any decision by its club to go its own way. They actually might get a big surprise at how much they might lose. The present system isn't broken and it allows top teams to play other top teams in europe, i see only problems and more greed from the so called big teams, that can't be good. Money is behind it and nothing else. I won't be interested in us leaving the prem at all.

Agree1 Disagree0

05 Nov 2018 17:42:58
It might but I don't think it will happen mate, it's a short sighted plan to make the tiny minority super rich at the expense of all others, it's fine if your one of the chosen few but who will be included in the chosen few? I'm pretty sure let's say Porto just for argument sake would be in favour if included but against if not and the same goes for Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool United Spurs, no doubt some would be used to get the go ahead then left high and dry once it's done and dusted.
Fools gold for almost everyone but the tiniest minority.

{Ed002's Note - This has been under discussion for 10 years and is not in any way short-sighted. You probably need to read what has been explained and updated regularly on the European pages about the "breakaway".}

05 Nov 2018 18:08:44
Many things have changed in that 10 years Ed, I'm sure City weren't under consideration to take part 10 years ago while United would have been top dog certainties.
In my opinion it's always short sighted to think you will always be invited to a party that's only for the very elite, things can change even for United.

{Ed002's Note - They have continued to discuss it on a regular basis. Why not go and read it before making comments like this that make no sense?}

05 Nov 2018 18:15:04
I don't think the clubs have fans in mind at all, i think they are misguided and i think it is not workable. It is all about money and i think when the details becomes more mainstream, there will be an outcry. Maybe in the end a watered down version might be introduced but you can not have teams leave national leagues on a full time basis. There could possibly be a mid week mini european league with promotion and relegation within that mini comp but teams can't leave the prem. It has to be a competition working next to national leagues not above and away.

{Ed002's Note - I have explaine dthe situation over and over - try reading that first.}

05 Nov 2018 18:53:29
That's a very fair comment Ed, I will read it before I comment on it again as it would silly to get all the info first.
Your sensible advice has been noted mate :-)
Hasta la vista European super league, I'll he back :-)

{Ed002's Note - The point being is what Der Spiegel have cobbled together is from three of four items dating from 2014 to now and some of what they have is far from correct and some is briadly right.}

05 Nov 2018 18:54:22
Ive read something you replied to Ed02, explaining what's going on. My thoughts still is that most fans would not be interested in a breakaway european league, the clubs can have all discussions they like but the fans will not want to stump up the extra costs that would be involved and most fans love their own national league. It is a bit like the EU, we joined and after all the flaws were found and our say got less and less we are coming out. I don't think fans will fancy the idea of changing traditions for a start and as far as tv is concerned, i know lots of people leaving because of money, they wouldn't be too interested in joining up for something like that at all. I know one here who would cancel my sky. It is about money and i think ultimately the clubs will realise the fans mostly are not behind it and i don't just mean this country. There will in my opinion be some sort of a compromise somewhere.

{Ed002's Note - They will have no problem filling the grounds with fans.}

05 Nov 2018 20:24:58
I don't think filling grounds would be the problem, i think people paying more money to watch on tv would be. Plus most fans i know prefer the premier league. If there was a ballot, in the ESL and out of the prem or in the prem and forget the breakaway, i know with speaking to people where my money would be. I think the clubs who are talking are not thinking about the fans. The problem lies that the clubs with the most to lose are the prem clubs, they get more tv revenue than most foreign teams from their national leagues tv payouts. It is also the most saleable league in the world because it is so competative. Most other leagues only have two or three teams max that create revenue for their respective leagues. That isn't the case in the prem. isn't it something like the top twenty earning clubs in the world, ten are from the prem. The premier league is working well and earning clubs in it a lot of money. I think they have the most to lose.

06 Nov 2018 08:02:58
I wouldn’t be interested in watching it, the current format and mixture is fine as it is . I’d rather we stayed away from it.

{Ed002's Note - Sure, no problem with Arsenal staying away at all. But other leading teams will go with it so games against those sides will no longer happen. But what if Arsenal did go with it, you would no longer see them play?}

06 Nov 2018 09:48:01
The stadiums will be full but they won’t all be with fans from each club.

06 Nov 2018 11:13:45
Valid Ed I could never say never but I’m old school and like the domestic side of it all, it’s far more exciting, of course as time goes on each new generation will be on board with it

Your correct CB it won’t be fans of each club, how could fans possible afford to keep travelling.

{Ed002's Note - It is a natural progression for the game.}

06 Nov 2018 13:07:15
I’m not sure it is, deminishing domestic crowds, smaller clubs getting smaller

Each to their own opinion but It might be where it’s going but it’s not necessarily the right move ( domestically)

{Ed002's Note - You need to look at the much bigger picture. English football struggles because their are too many professional teams and it is not regionalised. The following was written probably three or four years ago:

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting there finances in order to see if they can make it to a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have eventually gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good (it would be two or perhaps three initially). Clubs like Accrington Stanley will need to carry on as amateurs or face extinction (yet again). Recently Hartlepool has been struggling - again it needs to adapt. The mighty Third Lanark have started their long journey back to the top - it can be done.

The game has changed significantly and will continue to do so whether the Liverpool supporters like it or not. Football at the highest level is big business and attracts the sponsorship it does because the sponsors wish to tap in to the disposable income of the fans and ride the back of the advertising that flows naturally from the success some clubs achieve. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Anfield on a Saturday afternoon. I have explained that there will be changes, probably within the next 10 to 12 years, which will force the restructuring of all of the leagues in Europe and likely do away with the likes of UEFA. You will have the opportunity to see the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and the other major European sides play in week-on-week regular competition at The Emirates, St James Park, Stamford Bridge or wherever. Fans of the sides who take the plunge will have the opportunity to visit cities such as Milan, Barcelona, Munich, etc. every couple of weeks to watch their team play. If you want to don your cloth cap, have a pint of wallop with your chums before going off to the local match through the grim, wet and cobbled streets of the Northwest of England where there is smog, dead & dying pit ponies laying on the street and only chips and fried curry to eat., perhaps one of the sides from the suburbs will have survived so you can go and watch them?}

06 Nov 2018 14:07:02
Personally I don't think it's worth worrying about because I don't think it will ever happen, it might and if and when it does that's the time to have strong opinion either way.
Nobody knows what the future holds and in my experience if ain't happening today tomorrow next week or next month then it ain't really worth to much thinking about.
At the moment its merely a wish that some would like to see come true for thier own ends not because it's right for football.

06 Nov 2018 14:38:45
Initially I thought will never happen due to footie being part of fabric of society tribal etc . But went recently to Tampa Bay Bucanneers NFL game and shocked at number of Cleveland Browns fans were there! Maybe like the weather we get what USA have a week later we will have big franchises in different areas of Europe . Me I’m old school and hope not and personally travelling to and from places in Europe for me would be cost prohibitive with plane hotels food etc etc COYG.

{Ed002's Note - There are no too many sides in the NFL and not too many games - but folks make a big deal of it and travel (although it is hard to see why anyone would travel to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Green Bay etc.). To be honest, getting around Europe is cheap. Paris is nearer to North London than Manchester (and a great deal nicer).}

06 Nov 2018 17:56:10
Gunner, i don't know one fan who thinks its a good idea, the clubs might want it, or not but the fans don't. I think the clubs will alienate many fans if they blindly do something stupid without consulting the people that matter and keep the clubs where they are, the fans. i've seen two online polls and they were both over 80% against it, one was 92%. I think it will cause that much resentment, it won't happen as a breakaway.

06 Nov 2018 18:46:06
I'm sure there is a strong desire from those who believe they will be involved Steve but there will be a lot of resistance from all other clubs and uafa and fifa, when thd premier league first came into being I'm sure the clubs who were involved at the time like Norwich and Barnsley? Were rubbing their hands together but now wish it had never happend and Arsenal Liverpool Spurs and Chelsea could all be the Norwich and Barnsley of a European super league quite easily in years to come.
For me personally I'm not much interested in Barcelona v PSG or Bayern Munich v Real in fact last season the only champions league tie that got me excited about watching it was Liverpool v City so I can't see the European super league being of much interest to me personally.
There are other things in life than football and fans who are pushed out will vote with their £s ultimately.
I wonder if supermarket Giants Tesco Sainsbury and Asda ever thought they would be running scared of Aldi and Lidl but they are and it's all because they misjudged what the public wanted and they took thier customers for granted.

06 Nov 2018 19:25:23
Gunner, the clubs are getting too big for their own boots and if they piss the fans off, they will suffer ultimately. There isn't the passion for it among fans at all. And that's what matters. Fans love football for derbies and historical rivalries, not for who is the richest greediest club in the world. Like i say, the clubs need to be with the fans on this and not the greedy owners, who could ruin their club in a heartbeat. For Arsenal not to play toots or liverpool not to play everton would be a something that people don't want to lose.

{Ed002's Note - Not going to be a problem if Arsenal stay away. There is nothing new in any of this so I am not sure why all of the fuss.}

06 Nov 2018 20:12:37
Its not about arsenal Ed02, its about english football the culture and the total disregard of all fans, not just arsenal, whom i think generally haven't got the appetite for a completely separate european league. I doubt it will ever happen as has been suggested. I don't know of anyone who sees it being good or right and that isn't just arsenal fans. This won't happen without the fans support and i'm yet to see that that is the case. I hope our government steps in to make sure english football is not sold down the river. If there is the appetite among fans then no problem. I don't see it at all.

{Ed002's Note - Surveys have been done with some fans, the whole issue has been discussed for 10 years and there is as I have explained something Arsenal may opt out of. You can keep saying it won't happen but it is nothing more than tiresome and I am not so sure you are seeing the bigger picture about a progression. I also don't understand why this is such a big deal to you all of a sudden.}

06 Nov 2018 21:07:18
Yes Ed02, if the fans are all on board and its what they all want, i'm sure football will go off in its new direction, no problem. Personally, i wouldn't trust any organisation that is ruled by the middle east money men. There will be too much influence in it from psg, citeh, Barcelona and real. But like you say this has been in the pipeline for ten years. I hope i still have the premier league for at least the next ten. I just think the prem teams ultimately have too much to lose. We will see.

{Ed002's Note - Which Middle Eastern money men are these? There is no influence from those sides beyond any other and I am not so sure you understand what is being proposed.}

06 Nov 2018 23:07:28
I'm with you there Ed002 why are we talking about this now when there is so many positive things happening at Arsenal right now, this is nothing new and like a manned mission going to Mars is merely something that could happen rather than something thar is about to happen in the near future.
When there are imminent concrete plans that are top of the football agenda is the time to really debate the subject surely.

06 Nov 2018 21:33:58
Ed02, you are saying it will happen, with all due respect, it will only happen if the support is there and that won't become apparent until everything is made mainstream and all the years of behind the door, cloak and dagger negotiations are put out. Then people will see what is being proposed. Secret polls, which i know nobody who has been asked are a waste of time. let's get the final proposals out in the open and see how good and popular they really are. Whatever, i or you think as individuals is neither here or there. The majority is what matters.

{Ed002's Note - I assume you have not read what I have been explaining for years as you simply don't seem to get this at all. The polls weren't secret.}

06 Nov 2018 22:05:15
A league of 16 ed02, 11 of which are "elite" teams, i wonder why psg and citeh are in there, would they have been if it wasn't for middle east money. 5 guests, none of the elite teams would be relegated for is it 20 years, Only the guests. Straight away, i see massive problems with that idea. How will the guests get in and out of their respective leagues, i can't see many national leagues (after being stripped of the best teams and devastating it) allowing random clubs in and out. No relegation for the elite, i don't like that, what is the point. I just don't like what i have read/ heard so far. I hope my club and the others, do the right thing and stay in the prem. Just my opinion of course.

{Ed002's Note - You are going by information which is far from complete. You don't know which teams are involved nor which teams are involved in the "elite" discussions. As I have explained but you are just not getting, there is every chance Arsenal will not be involved.}

07 Nov 2018 19:53:51
Interesting to hear players will be banned from International football if they join a super league.



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