11 Apr 2018 10:19:01
The premier league is the premier competition in England and ultimately each club and each manager are judged by their premier league performance over 38 games each season.
What are Arsenal football clubs minimum acceptance level now days?
For Chelsea and City winning the title its self is always the acceptable outcome but if a manager at those clubs is lucky he can get away with winning it every other season if they do ok in the champions league in between titles.
United were at that level under Fergie but have fallen considerably since he left, Mourinho has more leeway than Pep and Conte but won't have for long, for Jose the minimum acceptable performance over a season is currently top 4 but on a rising scale to compete and win titles in the next two seasons to keep his job, his top 4 acceptance days are very much numbed.
Liverpool and Spurs have never won a premier league title and both clubs want to change that asap but equally both clubs accept this will not happen quickly, for now top 4 is Spurs and Liverpools minimum acceptable return for a premier league season.
Most other clubs are ultimately happy to survive in the premier league top 10 is good and a manager of most clubs can breathe easy there but the absolute minimum acceptance level for most teams is top 17 finish.
So where do Arsenal fit in?
Obviously it's not winning or even competing for titles
Also it's no longer finishing top 4 or even challenging to finish top 4 now days.
So what is our absolute minimum premier league acceptance level from the team and Arsene now days?
What would ultimately be an unacceptable return for Arsene and Arsenal, dropping out of the top 10, finishing bottom 5, would it take relegation itself to become unacceptable and for something to have to change?
11 Apr 2018 10:40:21
Hi John mate, I stil don't believe it's the clubs ambition but wengers.
I am 100% sure under a decent manager we will be back competing again.
He has to go this summer, either with his choice or the club kicking him out.
He is leading the club into a very dark age.
11 Apr 2018 10:46:55
The reality is 62, that there are now 6 teams more than capable of making the top 4, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, United and us.
It’s more a question of can any other team break into that rather than will one drop out, the question of how far can we fall is only asked because Wenger is at the helm because whilst Kroenke has no will to win he does have a will to make money.
It’s all about the managers, City, Spurs and Liverpool are set. City and Liverpool will get stronger with Spurs a little unknown whilst the move is underway, will players or manager get poached.
Chelsea will bring in a quality manager and United are stuck with the Zoo keeper and his gorillas. It will be hard to see Chelsea not returning into the thick of it and United will I’m sure make top four dependant on what Spurs do with ins and outs.
We will remain pretty much where we are under Wenger because he simply cannot develop the mental attitude needed in a title challenging team nor the ability to get a team to defend properly more than once or twice a season.
So I don’t see us falling any further because it’s big strides needed by lesser clubs rather than us getting worse under the current incumbent.
11 Apr 2018 11:01:15
Hi Mark mate, yes I totally agree we are a huge club and a manager away from gate crashing the top 5 party.
But I'm just wondering what it will take from Arsene to make the club finally act? Where is the line that even Arsene can not drop below without being replaced willingly or otherwise?
We know we haven't found that line yet, winning or competing for titles isn't requird and neither are top 4 and competing for top 4 required for Arsene to be allowed to carry on by the club but ultimately there must be a point somewhere that even our club says no more at.
I'm just wondering where people think that point is for the club to reach before taking matters out of Arsenes hands.
The club are obviously happy with 6th place if not that wouldn't allow Arsene to carry on so would 10th be ok too.
11 Apr 2018 11:27:23
Hi Stoner, I think Everton with a good manager and Newcastle with a good owner have real potential to gatecrash and get in between us and the top 5 but as we stand you are right we are unlikely to drop below or move above 6th place next season.
So if the club allow Arsene to carry on next season then obviously they find this position acceptable but do we the fans?
To me there seems no logical reason to simply accept Liverpool and Spurs now being beyond us competing with like we simply gave up all ambition of competing against untied Chelsea and City for titles years ago.
I said a couple of seasons back we keep lowing the bar so that Arsene can still get over it, I'm actually wondering how long before Europa league qualification becomes the new 4th place trophy for Arsenal however it's achieved by league position or even via solely fa or league cup success.
11 Apr 2018 13:00:51
Hey man, at least you've never finished 8th, or worse still, below Everton.
11 Apr 2018 13:20:56
Not yet Random but give Arsene time he's definitely working on it mate.
11 Apr 2018 13:58:57
If the question is asked as what will get arsene the sack and I’d say dropping out of Europe. Things are changing and staff been brought in. We have obviously loosened the purse strings. To be honest there’s a lot of fixating and ruminating on here and it’s mental. We’re in a good run of form and looking good for EL semi. I know it always feels like a false dawn but I don’t think I’ve seen a post of any positivity what’s so ever. It’s the same crap threads every day. How far are we going to slide what’s point in buying aubameyang we need defenders blah blah it’s unbelievable the amount of Debbie downers on here.
11 Apr 2018 15:01:53
Like you say Sanogo people have heard it all before
" When the stadium is paid for "
" When the financial fair play kicks in "
' now we have our new fitness coach "
Nothing ever comes from any of it that people can see out on the field of play mate, that's what matters to people not endless positive talk that keeps the Arsenal bubble world going.
When the club start showing they too want success on field of play and they too are not happy with where we are and the way the club is represented on the football field then w might actually see people start to respond more positively.
Talking the talk simply doesn't cut anymore hence so many empty seats.
11 Apr 2018 15:34:20
I know one thing 62, it’s pitiful to watch mate. It could well be they’re happy with Europa League qualification with the prize of getting into the Champions League but that’s a cycle I can’t see they’d want to get into.
They are clearly making moves behind the scenes that says they are really not comfortable with where we’re headed but no one believes they actually have the cojones to tell Wenger his times up. Only time will tell.
The feeling of apathy around the club just seems to get deeper each passing week as apart from that guy Ty on Arsenal TV I don’t think any sensible fan sees us competing under Arsene.
11 Apr 2018 16:19:42
Out of those 6 teams, I can only see 5 fighting it out for the 4 important places. Unfortunately arsenal will and are the ones dropping out.
On the up side for arsenal you have a fairly good chance of Europa every year. So boys chin up.
11 Apr 2018 16:40:07
The way I see it Stoner mate is only parting company with Arsene will raise everyone's hopes again.
The club could if it wished make this a summer of optimism sending us into next season with every full of renewed hope or it can just watch more and more people drift away and let Arsene take us further back than we are already.
12 mate your right of course it will obviously be us that drops out of the picture completely, last August it was just so obvious we had so many weaknesses going into the season that 5th to 7th place was going to be our limit it couldn't have possibly gone any differently, no bad luck no poor refereeing mistakes have put us here simply extremely bad management of the team by Arsene and bad management of Arsene by the club.
11 Apr 2018 17:49:44
Gunner things are obviously changing! Best case scenario Wenger goes this summer, worst it’s a year later. Until it happens and it is definatly going to happen (Q the reason for been Optimistic ) we need to enjoy the here and now. Whinge when we loose and cheer when we win. There’s no point whining over the same topics! It’s called rumination and any counsellor will tell you it’s counter productive. We are in a cup and there’s a chance of ECL at the end of it. Now however possible or unlikely people think it is that’s the point to be surprised or disappointed. Enjoy the moment.
11 Apr 2018 19:43:30
Where are things obviously changing Sanogo? Behind the scenes?
Well that's handy then;-)
Sorry mate unless or until the benefits can be seen and enjoyed by us fans then it is simply this season's when the stadium is paid blah blah blah.
Maybe I am doing the club a disservice this time maybe things really are changing and maybe this time these changes will one day bring change we can actually see and enjoy but my sceptism is based on " the little boy who cried Wolf " having heard so much jam tomorrow from Arsene and the club over so many the years.
If the club are serious this time then make the decision on Arsene for him this summer! Now that would be very different and get everyone taking them seriously and even if could argue with it :-)
11 Apr 2018 19:57:02
Slb. That's a great attitude until you play a good team😎.
11 Apr 2018 20:00:17
It’s been Top 4 since City and Chelsea got a money tree for Christmas - anyone who cannot link the two things shouldn’t be allowed to post.
So that’s Top 3 pretty damn hard to break into given Utd resources also
Spurs have invested well but they will do an Arsenal if they don’t pick up medals over the next two years as stars will leave
Liverpool have invested huge amounts and late in the game to address areas required. Sold very well to reinvest. They are clearly performing well also.
We should be competing for 4th or 5th all things equal and unfortunately we are doing a terrible job competing for even 5th. As a club we lack direction, serious investment and expectation from the top. From the day to day running if the club / team - we haven’t addressed the same issues for the past number of years, we’ve ridden our luck until last season. This should have been addressed by Wenger but also the board if they have any ambition to seriously compete.
Bottom line - the board don’t seriously want to compete. OK that’s the model.
Bottom line - our manager should manage the team better and address weaknesses
Bottom line - it requires a brave top manager to come in if they want to win the league as they will get frustrated as their ambition will not be financially matched by the board
I am not defending AW before you bite my head off or giving excuses but that’s where we are at. Second rate club with second rate ambitions who are now slightly under achieving despite 3 trophies of late.
11 Apr 2018 20:21:10
Decent post SY apart from wanting peole banned who don't agree with your opening line that is :-)
Who do you think you are RG :-)
Oh and:-) RG too by the way.
11 Apr 2018 20:32:45
Woah 62!you can't have an opinion on people choosing not to watch games. You choose not to watch games.
11 Apr 2018 20:52:21
Everyone is entitled to an opinion Eden mate, even RG :-) and judging by the thumbs up he gets thousands of people agree with all his posts but they are just a shy bunch who prefer to remain anonymous :-)
11 Apr 2018 21:04:36
Agree - should have chosen my words better.
11 Apr 2018 21:12:09
Gunner a few good end of season results at the end of the season, has in the past and will in the future, convince some that all is rosey. Its not a dig at those people but some are easily convinced. This is the twelth season where the nuts and bolts of the problem have never changed. I am of the opinion now enough people think whatever happens this season, enough is enough, the marriage is over, for good.
11 Apr 2018 21:13:31
Divorce and both go on our merry ways and see what a new future hold for both.
11 Apr 2018 21:48:57
Steve I was in your neck of the woods yesterday mate, went through a place called Spit in the Street on the A15 near the Lincolnshire show ground.
Sounds like a charming little place mate :-)
{Ed001's Note - that's not a place, that's an instruction.}
11 Apr 2018 21:52:06
Only kidding SY mate, we disagree on almost everything but your a top top poster and a really good bloke, even if you do vote Tory and drink fine wine :-)
11 Apr 2018 22:06:56
Oh yeah Ed001, why didn't I realise that when I was there? Don't answer that mate :-)
{Ed001's Note - it would take too long to explain anyway....}
11 Apr 2018 22:19:11
Ha ha Gunner, the sleepy hamlet of Spital. About 12 miles as the crow flies from me. that's about all there is there, crows. Odd name, the people there all walk around in rain coats, even in the summer.
11 Apr 2018 22:23:16
We also have a spital street, i avoid that too.
11 Apr 2018 22:40:09
What the name of the great big pub with the windmill on the A46 Steve?
{Ed001's Note - are you talking about Windy Millers?}
11 Apr 2018 22:54:22
Windmill farm, do an excellent roast everyday, cheap and very good.
11 Apr 2018 22:58:48
I could be Ed mate but I didn't see any signs for Camblewick Green anywhere, mind you I did see some soldiers called Hugh Pugh Barney Mcgoo Tufbut Dibble and Grub :-)
{Ed001's Note - ah but the most important thing of all, did you hear any Cants? Or were they all busy officiating in the Bernabeu tonight?}
11 Apr 2018 23:46:17
So g62 your going to be a downer until we win the league then! And things are not screaming out that change is afoot. First it’s Wenger been the party pooper then it’s there's no point because we shouldn’t have installed mislinstat and sanheli or bought auba until Wenger goes. It’s absolute madness.
11 Apr 2018 23:31:54
:-) Ed001.
I wish I'd known about this roast yesterday Steve mate, I stopped at a transport Cafe just off the M180, really old style place and I thought brilliant a proper full English fried bread the lot, but for £6.50 got one sausage a couple of small bits of bacon one egg and a whole catering sized tin of beans, oh and one slice of toast:- (.
I will keep that windmill farm roast in mind for next time Steve cheers for that mate, oh and if your about next time I'm up there and want to meet up, i will tell you how to get to that cafe :-)
12 Apr 2018 03:17:30
Ha ha, the brekky is to die for at windmill farm too.
12 Apr 2018 03:18:42
Let me know when your down again. I will take the missus away for a break. Ha ha touche'
12 Apr 2018 08:58:33
It's a funny thing Steve that happens a lot when I visit people, they suddenly remember a holiday they'd booked ages ago :-)
I must have one of those faces :-)
{Ed001's Note - we do that as editors too, there is a little red flag that pops up when you post on our widget. That's why I usually end up editing as the rest suddenly find chores that they have been putting off for 5 years have become urgent. Apparently.}
12 Apr 2018 11:18:30
:-) Yes Ed001 mate i do seem to have that effect on people, suddenly people become full of enthusiasm for things they've previously been putting off for years, overgrown lawns get mowed, attics cleaned out and some husbands have even been known to suddenly start listening to how thier wife's day has been with real intense interest, in fact so much so no matter how hard i knock I can't seem to break thier concentration and make them see or hear me, crazy it tiz :-)
{Ed001's Note - it is amazing, you might well be responsible for saving marriages.}
12 Apr 2018 11:31:34
All I know for sure is estate agents and holiday companies absolutely love me for some reason Ed :-)
{Ed001's Note - it's funny, you sound like you have a similar problem to me, all my neighbours keep moving out. No one stays longer than the minimum term on this floor yet all the other floors have tenants that have been in this tower for years and years. Odd coincidence obviously.}
12 Apr 2018 12:29:23
It's the only possible explanation I can think of Ed mate :-)
A girl dumped me once and said " I'm really sorry it's not you it's me who's the problem " I thought what a shame we're splitting up when we've just started to agree on things :-)
{Ed001's Note - hahahaha that's a good one. However if it happened today, she would have said it's not you it's Harry Kane....}