Arsenal banter 67953


Use our rumours form to send us arsenal transfer rumours.

(single word yields best result)

14 Feb 2018 13:58:51
So i know as a sensible human being i have to respect people with alternative views to myself, but i have to admit i am finding it increasingly difficult to understand why anyone, based on current evidence, can remain blindly as an "In Wenger We Trust" individual. Now before all those IWWT people on here jump down my throat, i don't necessarily mean those who at least can put forward a half decent technical reason for him to remain, but its more aimed at those who blindly base their decision on Wengers history at the club, and what he did over 10 years ago. Perhaps worse than those are the "be careful what you wish for" brigade, who i imagine never leave their house in case something unexpected happens. So to them i say the following. Based on your views, I believe the following: Wenger should never have been our manager. He should be removed immediately and replaced with the man who previously had the best managerial record with Arsenal, Herbert Chapman. Based on his history he should still be our manager and should never have been replaced. So Ok yes, he may have sadly passed away, but hey, based purely on his record he still needs to be our manager, and so let's get his ashes put on the side of the pitch to manage the team, because, after his major success, why oh why did we get rid of him, what were we thinking? No doubt the "careful what you wish for brigade were out in force at the time, and you have to ask, why didn't we heed their advice at the time, as we have never won a single competition since. Oh Wait.

Agree0 Disagree0

14 Feb 2018 15:13:16
Maybe context is relevant. If you accept that Man City can't be outspent, and that a half decent manager would do well with them, let alone Pep, then what is it being asked of AW and AFC.

I don't know how much Koeman spent at everton, but didn't seem to improve their position - partly wrong players/ prices, but also probably as teams they were chasing spent more. Its the same with AFC and spurs, LFC and to a lesser extent Chelsea compared with City.

If spend won't get the team right up there, it can then only be club structure and tactics.

AW is bringing through youth, more than other teams. Most of us think bellerin, holding, nelson, Niles (and some people iwobi) are either first teamers now and if not, great future talents. So AW/ AFC ticking that box. I think jack (at 25?) will re-sign although he could get more money elsewhere partly because he is 100% arsenal but also because of AW's treatment of him.

If it's tactics, i would agree in part. I don't know enough about real tactics to talk about AW's failings, but he seems stubborn about players and formation. That said, it could be argued that sticking with xhaka etc, the intention is to show faith in the players that he genuinely thinks are capable rather than doing a mourinho and osttacising the next de bruyne, salah, schurle, lukaku etc.

My biggest criticism is sticking to high pressing and eye of a neesle passing rather than trying to draw teams out more. Also, not playing wide and crossing from the byline when we had Ollie. Again, I don't profess to be an expert.

I also jave no idea how he has been inhibited behind tje scenes or jas taken tough decisions which haven't worked out.

So for me, AW is intelligent, experienced, loves AFC, treats the players with respect and loyalty, still gives us entertaining football. His approach still attracts players as they know they will be part of a team. Am I frustrated with glaring errors? Yes. Do i believe je can't see them? No. Could someone else address them better? Maybe. Will they likely win us the league in the next 5 Years? No, but we should be able to be top 4.

Do I think anyone else could have navigated us to where we are right now? Honestly, no. I think someone elae would've spent big and gone down - see villa, Newcastle, or perhaps tread water like everton, but certainly not won us the league or got us into the champs semi finals.

14 Feb 2018 15:43:44
Jim, so what direction have we been heading in these last few years, up or down? Is believing in xhaka working? Has our defence ever been worse? Is 6th and the 12th year without a realistic title challenge enough? Is our squad better now than say 5 years ago? Should we saver being in the europa league? Do you not think he has just been our manager too long? Is there real hope and optimism around what he is doing? If the answer to all those questions is yes, wenger should be given a 10 year contract. If no, then what?

14 Feb 2018 17:01:54
I only personally know one from about 200 gooners I personally know and although a really lovely guy that’s the problem. He is happy to see every sunrise and feel blessed.

14 Feb 2018 17:53:06
I think Arsene might, I say might just be prepared to walk this season unless we win the europa league and quality for next seasons champions league.
I've never got the impression our not being competitive in the title race ever hurt Arsene personally, I think he's been very proud to have built the stadium and keep delivering champions league participation and for him regardless of what anyone else thought just hanging out with Europe's elite clubs was success.
But now making top 4 has become a bridge to far for the second successive season I think Arsene is very much hurting personally and he might not be able to find the emphusiasom to accept a Europa league future after so many years of being associated with even if not competing with Europe's elite.
Just my view but it's a big step down for Arsene to have to accept no longer being mentioned in the same breathe as Barcelona Real Bayern and Co anymore.

14 Feb 2018 17:41:11
For me Jim, the rot is well and truly set in. We aren't a club on the up, we are going further and further into obscurity. No pundit in the land thinks we are top 4 material anymore, not one. While that on its own is not reality, it is damming. Its not because they are biased, its because we are poor and adrift.

14 Feb 2018 18:17:03
Gunner, my opinion is wenger, can't let go, whatever, he only sees himself as a success, nobody could do his job better. He won't leave, he will have to be pushed and i find that disturbing. The greatest modern manager in the prem even new when his time was up and he left at the top. Wenger is blind to any damage he is doing.

14 Feb 2018 18:39:26
Steve City and Pep might not be able to repeat this season again next season but they will once again be the team to beat.
Mourinho and Utd will add to what they already have buy spending more of whether it takes to get the players they want, they are definitely going to finish this season higher and probably their highest position post Fergie, so they are without question on the upwards trend.
Chelsea will most likely replace Conte and have another up season in what seems like a yo yo champions under achievers on off rotation.
Liverpool under Klopp leap fogged us last season with out spending a fortune and this season have spent more but also increased their position above us, it's difficult to argue they too are on the up.
Spurs will most likely finish above us for a second successive season but may or may not lose Harry thus summer, even if they do lose him but retain Poch then who's to say they won't invest the money they get to increase their overall strength.
As we stand Spurs too are certainly a club very much on the up.
As for us?
We have so many problems to sort out in so many positions and even though PEA is a magnificent signing can he or anyone really do more for us than Sanchez did? If we rise above the bitterness some people now feel towards Sanchez who can honestly deny he was absolutely outstanding for us.
My point is that while all the teams currently above us look likely to continue to improve next season we are still moving in the opposite direction currently.
Next seasons top 4 is already looking further away than this season's did last August.
It's up to us to improve ourselves rather than hope something wrong at 2 or more of the clubs who are currently to hot for us to keep up with.

14 Feb 2018 18:50:13
I've been of the same opinion too Steve but now that we look europa league fixtures at best for the foreseeable future I think things might change with Arsene himself.
Spurs Liverpool Utd have all raised the bar this past 2 seasons and even though many at Arsenal might be willing to lower our own bar to enable Arsene to get over it the rest of football won't be so accommodating towards making Arsene feel good.
I'm not sure Arsene is prepared to sit at the second tier table from now on after so many years of dinning with the big clubs.

14 Feb 2018 18:56:02
Gunner from my point of view, if wenger stops, we are not getting top four next season. If he leaves, we can at least hope. It will be up to the board.

14 Feb 2018 19:06:44
I think parting company witness Arsene how ever it happens has to be the first step Steve but I don't think it's going to be as simple as just doing that, those above aren't going to simply make way for us because Arsenes not our manager any more.
There is an awful lot of work to be done mate as we have an awful lot of players who aren't up the standard required in several positions, it's not as simple as get a new manager spend £150 million job done, in my opinion it could take 2 to 3 seasons before we get back into the top 4 even let alone challenge even with a new manager.

{Ed025's Note - i think your right G62, unless you get a manager who does,nt give a jot about the defence and likes tippy tappy footballers then the new guy will have a hell of a task mate..

14 Feb 2018 20:22:24
I think we are a new manager and three players from getting top 4. How high?, that will depend on the manager and who he brings in. We are fine offensively we need work defensively. We are 10 years plus in our coaching behind under wenger. A modern coach would improve us 30% just organising.

14 Feb 2018 20:58:04
We might not strike gold first time with our next manager Steve we may have to dig a few times in a few different places before we actually get another lucky strike.
In Arsene Wenger we struck very very rich seam indeed but unfortunately it's been increasingly less and less productive for over a decade now.
When we crashed out of last seasons champions league against Bayern and the players left the field with the champions league music playing the commentator on the Radio said
" I wonder how long it will be be before we here that music played again at the Emirates "
I couldn't help but think that night how scary but brutally honest his question was.

14 Feb 2018 20:14:36
We have to be realistic Ed025 mate both with and without Arsene.
The first step towards going in the right direction is to accept it and simply stop walking in the wrong direction!
As Kenny Rogers said
"sometimes you've got to know when to hold um and know when to fold um"
Every man and his wife knows Arsenes cards inside out and his bluffing no longer fools anyone who doesn't want to be fooled.
I wonder where Liverpool utd Spurs would all be if they'd stuck with Brendan Sherwood and Lvg?

14 Feb 2018 21:21:25
Gunner we aren't in a fergie situation. He got the best out of a pretty average bunch at the end and left a huge void to fill. Wenger is not getting the best out of this team, he isn't irreplaceable like fergie, it can be improved and for me, anyone with good coaching ability would improve us straight away. To where, time will tell.

14 Feb 2018 21:59:59
Steve I don't think anyone is going to walk in and change a whole culture quickly and painlessly, our players are used to 4th place being a trophy and a manager who makes excues for them and that won't be easy to change overnight. Some will adapt and buy into being held accountable some will take acception to it.
When Mourinho took over Porto half way through the season in around mid table he told the players the club were going to be champions the next season and those who wanted to do things his way and be part of it could stay and who ever wasn't happy could leave, half left and the other half went on to the win the title the next season and the champions league after that.
We need a strong brave manager with that sort of approach to sort out our cosy club mentality firstly before anything else, he may or may not follow it with success but first he has to break up and dismantle the mentality that has been within the club for years and that all the pundits question on a regular basis season after season.
It's not a easy job mate, replacing Arsene of the last 10 years is far from impossible but the next manager won't be inheriting the George Graham foundations that Arsene did he will inherit more closely what George found when he took over.
I don't think it's going to be as easy or simple to get back to even top 4 contention as you think mate.
Not impossible but equally no formality.

{Ed0333's Note - Who would you like to see taking over from Mr Wenger mate?

14 Feb 2018 22:38:59
Hi Ed033 mate, personally I'd be open to all sensible candidates like Sean Dyche who is up and coming (like Poch was not so long ago ) or like Ancelotte a seasoned proven man who has had success at lots of different clubs.
I'd just like some to come in clear out this soft cosy mentality and replace it with a different mentality with accountability and responsibility.

{Ed0333's Note - I would go all out for the Hoffenheim coach if I were you he’d be perfect. Give him lots of money to spend and a salary he can’t refuse. How else are you gonna overhaul City, Liverpool, Spurs, United and Chelsea?

14 Feb 2018 23:07:42
I think whoever you appoint is a gamble Ed033, why has Poch worked out so well at Spurs and Brendan Rogers so badly at Liverpool despite spending lots more money.
There are few if any Peps and Jose's about who seem to come with a anything to like a guarantee.
Klopp is the nearest thing I've seen to a safe bet for the likes of Liverpool Arsenal Spurs who are big clubs with great but not unlimited resources but I can't think of another Klopp right now, so it's pays ya money and takes ya chance almost who ever you go for but there comes a time when you just have to take a chance somewhere on someone.

{Ed0333's Note - nothing is certain in life mate apart from the fact Sam Allardyce will fail wherever he goes.

14 Feb 2018 23:24:19
Don't know much about him Ed, I assume he is building a decent reputation? My worry is that we sign a 'step up' manager who is happy to come in on a decent salary but accepts there is no transfer budget. For me, signing a Simeone or Allegri, whilst might not ultimately prove to be the correct decision, by securing their signing would hopefully show some sort of intent from the club? I would imagine both would be in demand from other big clubs so I couldn't see either choose us knowing we have little ambition and a tight as a knats wozit transfer budget.

{Ed0333's Note - you have a super stadium, great training facilities a brand new scouting network with world class scouts you just need a manager with a tactical blueprint and give him some time. Yes you won’t spend lots of money compared to Utd and City but who does have those types of transfer budgets in football very few teams. If I were you I’d be hopeful about the future. I know it’s in vogue to be hating on Arsenal at the moment but I would be hopeful for the future if I was an Arsenal fan.

14 Feb 2018 23:50:12
Steve R, why you give a hoot about Alan Shearer and whatever other mouthpiece looking for his next gig so he to be controversial commenting on the Arse? These guys are the sporting equivalent of a Louis Walsh. #COYG.

15 Feb 2018 03:19:14
IT if you read what i put, it has nothing to do with reality, but pundits don't rate us, that's all. Loyal ardent arsenal and wenger pundits that have played for us are saying the same. It was just a point.

15 Feb 2018 09:40:45
Football pundits are like political analysis experts they often differ in their opinion and are extremely often wrong, but when they all agree 100% about something it's usually about something that's pretty obvious and almost impossible to argue against.
Arsenes early success is impossible to argue against as is his and Arsenals steady decline over the last decade or so.
We are a club in limbo waiting for the change that absolutely has to happen to actually happen and for Arsene to set Arsenal free from its debt we owe him for those first 10 years, because it's only that debt that has kept him his job so long.

15 Feb 2018 11:42:13
BTW, i just wanted to say great reply to my original post JiMGoon. I don't necessarily agree with all you mention, but its nice to see someone make a thoughtful and structured statement about the way they see things at the club, even if it differs to most of the posters on here, and it certainly opens up channels for us to debate!

15 Feb 2018 17:28:24
Thanks Epping.

I still have huge concerns, but want to try and base my opinions on fact or the opinions of professionals that have more insight than me.

Before my phone lost it, i did respond to Steve's question:
"what direction have we been heading in these last few years, up or down? "
By saying, from memory, 4 seasons back we were 4th, then 3rd, then 2nd, so technically UP.
At the time AW got stick which i thought was unfair. If fans had supported the team, who knows where we would have been.
Aw hasn't helped matters with his contract farce or team selections or tactics, but i really think the fans negativity contributed too.

Now its toxic and he has to go, but i think he knows it. Its down to the board to decide if its in the clubs long term interest when leaving will be. I hope and trust he's now just trying to prepare for the future and look after the youngsters and players like jack etc before he goes and help appoint a successor - either with long term loyalty like ljungberg with others support, or a Poch type.

Until then I'm happy seeing out AW's final days (i think this is the last season) showing him respect, supporting the team to do as well as possible - even if a 5th place a scrap is as good as it gets - showing mikhi, auba, laca and Kolasinac that they've come to a great club and made the roght choice, enjoying watching them play and Jack proving loadsof fans wrong.

I still think Wenger has the club's interest at heart, but his tactics haven't worked or he's not been able to get the players to perform. so although not expecting him to do anything other than see out his tenure.

IAWT (to do what's best for the club)

15 Feb 2018 11:36:41
I must confess Ed033, i am a lot more positive now after the arrival of these new guys in the scouting and backroom teams. Ed002, who seems to be fairly knowledgeable on the subject (to put it mildly! ) , has said many positive things about them, and so perhaps for the first time we can see the light emerging of life without Arsene. Perhaps more importantly, we were all worried about who at the club was actually capable of scouting and hiring our next manager, but with these guys in place, i feel we can at least be more hopeful that there are now more experienced 'football brains' at the club who are going to be part of that process.

{Ed0333's Note - if I were you mate I’d be looking forward to an exciting new chapter in the life-story of AFC.

16 Feb 2018 00:59:13
Jim, what do you think arsenal will gain having a manager going into the last year of his contract again, within the space of two years. When the last time it happened, it was a disaster. Especially when he is in an even more precarious position.

16 Feb 2018 09:21:17
Steve, without knowing the reasons for that even happening, we don't know the alternative, but it's not good.

If the club have a manager in mind, lined up to take over at the end of aw contract next year (my typo yesterday. He will stay next season) ands managed well/ communicated internally, it should be fine.

If the club have a manager they're not sure will come, or none available, or none the board want, then it's likely going to be a new contract farce which will be unsettling. They will again have to decide to let aw go and get someone in temporarily, which is unlikely, or a crazy 1 year contract.

That's the club's fault though.

16 Feb 2018 19:46:04
Yes jim it seems a bit crazy to me, i think the two year contract was badly thought out either way.



Log In or Register to post

Remember me

Forgot Pass