14 Sep 2017 21:36:38
Arsenal fans that sold their tickets should get a 10 year ban. I've sent my son and his mates, and he says it is nasty.
I know the person that's 3 seats away so I, lol be speaking to him.
14 Sep 2017 23:53:41
All in family end mainly as well welshy.
15 Sep 2017 00:19:00
I agree. Kohln should be kicked out of the competition. The policing and stewards all need investigating to.
15 Sep 2017 09:00:10
If you look at it objectively the number of Colonge fans will have shocked everyone.
The best example I can think of is if Leeds were to return to European football after a 25 year gap, huge club and fan base that has been without such nights for a generation.
The fans turned it into a party and few could would have expected the share numbers to turn up as they did.
The stewards wouldn't have been trained for or capable of coping with such a situation.
The police? Well although they must have been aware of the potenial situation they can't be everywhere at once and in the world we live in how could they simply drop all they are doing else where to prevent things happening on a daily basis and respond to this situation.
Fans? Should they have sold their tickets? No, would they do the same again given the outcome of what they helped to create by selling them? I doubt it.
If someone offered you £1000 for your ticket would your immediate thought be " I can't do this for safety reasons? " Or would you think wow £1000, that's a holiday or a new sofa or whatever, on the spur of the moment I doubt anyone was thinking "I don't care about safety
I will take the money ' or 100% straight and with the benefit of that fantastic thing called hindsight everything is easy.
Last night was an extremely unusual situation ( who takes 25,000 fans to an away game in a different country on a Thursday evening ) .
Lessons need to be learned by everyone but it's all to easy to look back with hindsight and point fingers.
It was simply a crazy situation that no one expected and how could they have done?
The club the fans uafa all need to look at what happened and learn from it but then again when will this unique set of circumstances come up next, 25 years time?
{Ed001's Note - with the amount of surveillance we all live under now, there is no way the police would not have known this was going to happen days in advance, with the flight/ferry/train info they have to hand. That is even before they left Germany they would have had some idea that it was happening with the intelligence network they have now.
Then there is the fact that London is the centre of the CCTV world, there are more cameras in London than anywhere else in the world. So the police knew exactly what was going on. There really is no excuse for it descend into chaos.}
15 Sep 2017 09:41:39
All true Ed but there is only so far they can spread themselves.
Should the German authorities have let so many travel without tickets?
But then again are the German authorities entitled to refuse people to travel to London without a ticket for a football match that they may or may not be planning to attend?
With hindsight if the share volume of numbers planning to travel was known in advance then a fan park with giant screens might have been the answer to entice them away from the ground without tickets?
I know ideally mistakes wouldn't happen but sometimes in my opinion the only thing we can all do is learn from them, including the fans who I'm sure weren't thinking of the potenial consequences of selling their tickets at the time but who have seen the results now and should be more socially aware in the future having now had the chance to reflect.
I just think blame is such an easy game to play where everyone passes the parcel where instead a collective acceptance and learning is much more productive for the future.
{Ed001's Note - but the police have been here a millions time before in big games and still haven't learnt, even after killing 96 innocents they have learnt nothing. There used to always be a cordon around the grounds so you had to produce your tickets to get through, sometimes 3 or 4 times, to continue. That would have fixed this problem easily. They still do it for things like Old Firm games in Scotland. So, once they had an idea of the huge numbers travelling, all the police had to do was put up a cordon and direct the ticketless fans away. Simple really. It is something that has been used regularly in England for football matches in the past.}
15 Sep 2017 12:55:22
Do you know what ed I was stood outside last night and the same thing crossed my mind about the police and hillsbrough. As for fans not supposedly been allowed in the home end that's nonsense koln fans were coloured up and there was loads in the north bank and that's opposite the away fans end and stewards were letting them in. Police in and around the stadium but mainly towards the pub and food areas were clearly turning a blind eye. The same thing happened after FA cup final. Some Chelsea fans pissed up after game attacked two teenage Arsenal fans waiting for the tube and two police officers just walked passed and up an escalator clearly saw what was happening and thought better of it!
{Ed001's Note - the problem is a lot of the police still see football fans as the enemy and trouble, rather than just a group of people that might have some idiots amongst them.}
15 Sep 2017 13:22:56
That's it in a nutshell ed.
{Ed001's Note - it is quite sad really as they then cause a resentment and bitterness which breeds later troubles between police and football fans.}
15 Sep 2017 13:46:47
It is indeed ed and like you say about been the odd idiot amongst thousands of good fans you get the same with the police the odd over zealous moron that light the touchpaper.
{Ed001's Note - very true.}