05 Apr 2016 23:52:02
Greetings and Salutations,
Tis been awhile my dear friends.
With but a few mere matches left to be played in another chapter of our beloved game I thought I would take the time to chime in on my thoughts for the season gone past.
As many of you know I am an Arsenal supporter and Arsene Wenger fan.
I've always believed in his approach, the long term objectivity, the financial prudence, the style of football amongst his many attributes.
I have always contended that he is not above reprieve but have always felt that the true responsibility for the direction of the club resides with ownership and that Arsene's performance is subject to Mr. Kroenkes expectations and requirements, he is for me an employee.
Here within lies the gulf at the club Is Arsene doing what's best for the club or is he doing what is expected of him by the owner?
For a great period of time I believe there was great synergy between the two and both parties were equally happy.
Today the Arsene out brigade seems to be gaining a voice, but I ask is that in the best interest of the club?
Free speech is as important an ideal as one can have and I believe should always be afforded but is it in the best interest of all when the owner has seemingly shown unwavering support in favour of Arsene and the conflict between the Arsene out brigade and in Arsene we trust faction doesn't seem to bring any advantages to the landscape of winning.
Mr. Kroenke is a businessman first and supporter next.
As such his handling of Arsenal should not come as a surprise and it is here where I feel that some Arsenal supporters undervalue the continued contribution of Arsene Wenger.
Frankly speaking the expectation should never be to win but to have an opportunity to win.
Each year we all believe we have an opportunity and hence our frustration.
It is not a right to win and only one club does win the league.
I appreciate the frustration but feel to an extent that Arsenal supporters are somewhat entitled.
Many supporters clubs don't win, in fact since our last title only 3 clubs have and each has spent more than us to do so.
Yes I know Leicester is on that verge and fair play to them. For those using this is an example of Wengers fallacies I would suggest that yes he has made some mistakes this year but amongst his traditional peer group he has done relatively well and this season may be an outlier and not indicative overall of this type of accomplished being achieved year in year out.
In conclusion I believe there is an opportunity for fresh ideas at the club to be introduced and there will be a time when Arsene will leave but the manner in which some and i emphasize some have demonstrated themselves this year has been disrespectful.
We support the club good or bad, and for many top 4 for the period we have sustained is beyond remarkable, perhaps we need to take a step back and truly appreciate our club without bias and not exclusively based on silverware, I know one person who does and he owns the club.
For myself I will continue to support Arsene each time we take the field until his time comes to an end with the club because I believe supporting him and the club is what will take us over this hump and bring the title back to North London!
I wish everyone all the best and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
06 Apr 2016 12:03:10
Excellent post. However, although I tend to agree with many of your points, I differ on the Wenger/ Kronke relationship. I believe that Kronke allows Wenger the freedom to run the club as he wishes. One could argue that Kronke should have more of an input, but with no expertise in football, he wisely leaves it to Wenger to orchestrate. As far as Wenger is concerned he enjoys the freedom to run the club as he deems fit. He believes in bringing young players through or unearthing gems, as it saves the club millions in transfer fees, which was clearly necessary during the move from Highbury to The Emirates. Wenger also believes that football clubs are businesses and should be profitable, I believe that like myself, Wenger has a degree in economics. I must admit that at times I get a little frustrated with Wenger, but whenever I think of the change at the club during his period as manager, I can't see how we can replace him with better; the new training facilities (currently due to be upgraded) , the new stadium, the change in style of play from the old George Graham days, the amazing world class players, the trophies, etc. I believe if Weger were to bring in 3 top players this summer, he would get the fans back on board. The problem is that this is highly unlikely. Quite frankly, without selling or releasing layers there is not a lot of space in the squad. We have our keepers in place and unless Ospina goes, there will be no change. In defence, I believe we will sell or loan our Debuchy, so there is only really one defensive change I can see Wenger undertaking. Personally, I believe Chmabers needs to be sent on loan in order to play, whilst Mertseacker isn't suitable to play in a team that plays a high defensive line, as he lacks the recovery pace needed. With the signing of Elneny, we now have two defensive midfield players and with so many midfield players still at the club, I can't see any more being signed, as Wenger has to squeeze the likes of Cazorla, Ramsey, Wilshere and Ozil into one central attacking midfield role, hence he tends to play these players, at times, in a defensive midfield place or in a wide role. Striker-wise, we have Welbeck, Giroud and Walcott.
I can only see a couple of signings at best. A player that can play RB and CB and a midfield player of some type. With youngsters such as Iwobi having made the move to the first team squad and others on there way, there will be little change, other than selling or releasing; Debuchy, Arteta, Flamini and Rosicky. Others that may go are Ospina (only if he refuses to play second fiddle) , Oxlade (something looks wrong - I would keep him) , Gibbs (if he refuses to be back up for Monreal, Campbell (if a decent offer comes in.
06 Apr 2016 18:46:37
Wether people think without Arsene Arsenal would struggle to be top 4 or without him we would have been champions this season if not before is irrelevant he will be our manager next season and possibly the season after too if he chooses to be.
Arsene enjoys unprecedented unaccountability for any manager of any top club but not necessarily from Stan or the board but the vast majority of supporters who would rather be 4th with Arsene that 1st without him.
Arsene will decide when Arsene leaves not Stan the man or anyone else because even if the board wanted to replace Arsene without his agreement they couldn't handle the back lash from the fans wether they had Gardiola Ancelotti Klopp or who ever lined up sacking Arsene was never and still isn't an option even if they wanted it to be one.
06 Apr 2016 19:10:48
I think saying a vast majority of fans would rather be 4th with him than 1st without him is a tad extreme. I'm sure all of us want our club to do well. This isn't me being an Arsene in guy it just sounded extreme to me.
06 Apr 2016 19:55:01
Fair comment D I will rephrase that mate because reading it back it was probably an exaggeration, some fans would rather be 4th with Arsene than 1st without him but the vast majority feel no matter what we do under Arsene no one could have done better.
I base this on most of my mates who are so pro Arsene its incredible, they say we would have been champions if we'd signed a quality striker last summer on that we all agree but when you I say "if Fergie or Gardiola had been our manager they would have got one " they say" only if they spent £40 + million and Arsene won't do that! Which to me proves the point but to them Arsene would be the best man to get us promoted if he got us relegated.
06 Apr 2016 21:53:10
Wenger is a dinosaur, tantruming when he loses whilst doing nothing to react tactically to what is obviously wrong. The biggest problem is the lack of motivation, the inherent hubris, over confidence. Been there too lo ng and massively under achieving for 8 years or so.
06 Apr 2016 22:21:52
Its called blind faith gunner and I don't mean that in a nasty way, it people not seeing beyond wenger. He isn't irreplaceable, but he was great for thid club in his day.
06 Apr 2016 22:47:00
Let's put Leicester to one side as they were almost relegated last season. Let's put this season down as a one off, for now. History supports that.
Chelsea, City and Utd have spent circa 200m more than us and Spurs over last 5 years.
To compete - you need money.
150m in the bank is not enough. It's not increasing by 100m a season.
Wenger has a finite budget - that makes you picky and wanting to save 3m on a player. It would me and I am sure it would anyone.
In the olden days he strengthened every season and enjoyed winning - why change?
To compete we need more funds and to accept more debt or donations from ownership. We have investors not benefactors. Wenger is doing a great job with the money available. Mistakes, bad calls etc - of course just like you an I do at work.
We need a serious rethink of our finances, debt attitude and what we want as a club. If Wenger was failing he would be fired by board. He is not, rather quite the opposite. He is slightly over achieving with funds etc. Not to extent of Leicester but more long term. Wait for them to start playing Champ league etc.
Let's get behind Wenger as he's a good manager and always dies best for OUR club. Klopps not the answer at all. Pep would never come given that he would need to build a team with 100m max.
If you think we can win the league and Champ league with our current model - you are deluded and will never give our manager peace.
We accept 3rd or 4th and may be a lucky league with ever 20 years or we ask change in our model as too much super money in football now which us not generated by the club but rather rich ownership.
COYG!
06 Apr 2016 23:38:15
If we put Leicester and this season down as a one off why didn't we put in a one off title win?
IMO we've had the stadium, big boys money, injuries and not forgetting the best yet our players being tapped up in the run in Excuses.
What happens next season if Spurs with CL football to contend with and a new stadium to pay for and no big spending Billionaire backing win the league while having their fair share of injuries and of course Players being tapped up in the run in?
Where do we find our next excuse?
Surely it's time to accept the majority are happy as we are and stop with the continual excuses that are becoming more and more unraveled and less and less credible with every passing season.
06 Apr 2016 23:48:29
The money to succeed comment is utter garbage, just look at united, then look at mahrez, payet.
Arsenal can spend, but choose not to.
Also chosen to make the pay structure too socialistic.
Any manager in the prem could do better with arse's squad, including bfs, because they can motivate.
You need a balanced outlook to win serially, wenger too idealistic.
06 Apr 2016 23:52:31
Rate the dortmund coach (so far) , he has taken a model overbalanced towards offence, and shut down, to a great degree, the vulnerability.
Someone like that could rip it up for this arsenal squad.
07 Apr 2016 01:45:47
Great dialogue,
I would say in response to MCC, you are correct we do have a model, but I would say to you that it is a model which is accepted by the hierarchy at the club and they who make such decisions believe Arsene to be the right person to carry out their plan, so why continue to bemoan his presence?
Finishing top 4 does not make one a dinosaur, overconfident or tactically unaware. For myself it makes us pragmatic and consistent in our approach.
I would disagree that any manager would do better than Arsene, finishing top 4 as consistently as we have is no small accomplishment. Perhaps a season or two away from Champions League as United are facing will allow many to see what I feel is an incredible accomplishment.
However I will say the potential for another manager to do well or better can of course occur.
I personally don't consider winning two FA Cups, building a stadium, competing annually in champions league while finishing top 4 and being fiscally responsible as gloom and doom.
Some will call this complacency other will call it being patient, simply depends on your outlook.
My main point is that the club is seemingly happy with the person whom they have as the face of the club, and thus continually debating whether he should leave or not for me is pointless because it creates an environment of frustration when the reality is that almost every club in the world would trade places with us.
The Emirates should be place that opposing teams fear to come, unfortunately it is a place of division and it doesn't need to be especially when it doesn't appear that change will occur.
So let's celebrate the club and as they say in Americas past time let's root, root, root for the home team!
07 Apr 2016 14:06:14
MCC - money talks, the league has supported that year on year. Where were City and Chelsea before the oil money?
With the exception (EXCEPTION) of Leicester, who has won with no money?
Leicester will not be able to particiapte in FA Cup, EPL and EUFA on their budget. We generally over achieve on our budget.
The wage structure has changed. Hence Sanchez and Ozil's pay.
If I have 500m to spend on fantasy football and you onl 100m, is that level? If you think its level then I hope you are not a bookie or in finance.
Could Wenger have made a few better calls - from the outside I say yes. If he has limited funds so has to compromise on decisions or over negotiate fees then some decisions become more reasonable. Its frustrating as we could have won the league but that's life. We are still a great club with a great manager.
What would your 3 year spending plan if you only had a cash surplus of 150m, no rich owner, debt adverse and not makingmoney as a football business. I don't see cash inceasing by 100m per annum. what's your great master plan?
I understand why wenger gets stick but can not understand why more people don't back himandseriously challenge our business model.
07 Apr 2016 15:43:20
Leicester won league just about on not big money chelski won the league last year on a minus spend that season liverpool should have and nearly won on not big money man u won league by buying van persie for £25m. Your argument does not hold water. The league is not won when you sell your best assets and don't buy to fix obvious problemsthat are staring you glaringly in the face and you stubbornly don't spend money and keep it all in the petty cash instead.
07 Apr 2016 15:59:31
Steve - chelsea spent money. I am not talking net spend. Spend is over a periodof time not a one off. Liverpool didn't win and haven't won epl - what's your point? They also played 30% less games.
Chelsea haven't spent money? BS. They have spent 450m in last 5 years and their owner has spent how much in 10 years?
07 Apr 2016 16:03:20
Utd spent 53m that summer and bougnt their goalie for 19m the year before. Circa 110m in tbe 2 prior years.
07 Apr 2016 18:10:45
Sy4 the point is they all didn't win the year before with whatever squad or whatever it cost but they spent very little in comparison to win the league. The money issue is no more a few years back chelski bought the league as did man city but that is not the case now, they don't spend wholesale year after year. The mangers have won by tactically improving what they have, identifying the needs and buying especially withe fergie and maureen in recent years. Every one has more money now and that includes arsenal, who chose not to spend on certain positions and that's down to bad management not because soneone spent a few million more. We failed two seasons ago not to buy a top centerback and we failed this season not buying a striker or any outfield player because wenger said they were good enough, or he just wouldn't pay the going rate. The money argument does not hold water, athletico proved that in spain, dortmund in germany and Leicester will prove that in this country that it is also down to management. Our managers problem is his analysis and valuation that holds us back, not the fact we can't buy big.
07 Apr 2016 14:09:44
Mcc, article for you about Thomas Tuchel.
goo.gl/abjGeP
07 Apr 2016 20:26:32
Sy4 it not money that is the reason we fail, don't keep trying to use that as an excuse. Its down to us if we have failed. Is this year about money, no. Was last year about money, no, it is about lack of judgement and mis management. This season and i'm sure we can debate others is nothing at all to do with money.
07 Apr 2016 20:57:13
SY your right Liverpool didn't win the title 2 seasons back but they came a very good second something we haven't got close to for over a decade and got a points total we haven't got close for that same period.
Mate I get your an Arsene in man and respect your right to feel that way and i don't want to change your opinion but you must admit every time someone finds examples where your excuses don't cut it you find another excuse to cover it up.
We continually punch below our weight and Arsene stubbornness has and continues to hold us back most pundits and nutrals would agree on that but on the whole the vast majority of Arsenal fans are happy as we are and with our manager so in nutshell the whole Arsene in out thing is pointless to continually debate.
In? Out? THE ANSWER IS IN!
so let's all accept it move on.
07 Apr 2016 20:58:38
Spend table 03 to 14 - spend, sales, net and average per season. Money talks Steve
1 Manchester City £948,020,000 £278,950,000 £669,070,000 £51,466,923
2 Chelsea £995,959,000 £415,650,000 £580,309,000 £44,639,154
3 Manchester United £697,050,000 £284,150,000 £412,900,000 £31,761,538
4 Liverpool £690,780,000 £426,300,000 £264,480,000 £20,344,615
5 Aston Villa £297,750,000 £158,825,000 £138,925,000 £10,686,538
6 Sunderland £256,010,000 £141,500,000 £114,510,000 £8,808,462
10 Stoke City £146,120,000 £37,595,000 £108,525,000 £8,348,077
7 West Ham £220,030,000 £122,725,000 £97,305,000 £7,485,000
8 Arsenal £405,675,000 £309,770,000 £95,905,000 £7,377,308
9 Newcastle £301,100,000 £215,550,000 £85,550,000 £6,580,769
11.
07 Apr 2016 21:29:19
G62 - I am an arsenal fan and don't think anyone could have done much better
We have punched above our weight every season based on spend
Question is - finances or Wenger is to blame
Balance sheet supports Wenger
Has he made mistakes yes.
07 Apr 2016 21:42:14
Sy4 they are just a load of numbers that mean nothing and you can make arguments all day for different reasons but it still doesn't excuse the errors and misjudgements of our own club team. What on earth has 2003 to 2014 got to do with this season. Answer me what has money spent by the big spenders as you put got to do with this season, where are they, what has their money nought them, why are leicester top and not even on that table. Why did we buy zilch outfield players this season when we have money in the bank. What has that got to do with man u spending a billion pounds since 2003. They spent 250 mill last two seasons and won what, what has money done for them this season. Its not about MONEY.
07 Apr 2016 21:47:27
Same applies to man city what has their billions spent in the last ten years done for them this season. Chelski what has their money bought them this year, nothing, the managers are just as important and influencial in where you finish and what you do. If it just down to whi spends the most money wins then what a crap sport this is. Yes it has an influence but that doesn't cover up the mistakes made.
07 Apr 2016 22:01:08
So if it's nothing to do with money - why have the top 3 over the past 5 years been the biggest spenders over 5 years
Drop 200m down, then it's us and Spurs
Now look at the league over the past 5 years and you will see a correlation between the two
I have already said mistakes have been made but to genuinely compete over the past 5 years stats support we should have spent 200 to 250 more - note top 3 had stronger squads because of the numbers I quoted earlier
Our business model and approach simply doesn't support that - it needs to change
If money doesn't talk - why does everyone want superstars and 4 players or so signed.
I challenge you to spend our 150m we have over the next 5 years and compete with Utd, Chelsea, City spending double.
Leicester won't continue to compete - if they win it again, I will give you a tenner.
{Ed001's Note - you are having a laugh right? No one is this deluded surely? You have been one player, just one, short of making a title challenge every season. Since when does that cost 250m? You are such an apologist you make yourself look foolish. Arsenal's spending is more than just transfer fees, wages, bonuses, agents fees etc, which would put Arsenal firmly top four when overall spend is taken into account. That is why Ed002 doesn't like to talk finances, too many deluded people with no idea what they are talking about try and talk about it and just look like fools. Give it a rest. This is utter nonsense.}
07 Apr 2016 22:11:12
SY we continually come up short in the title race yet continually bank extra millions that were available to Arsene that HE chose not to use because he doesn't feel his 4th or 3rd placed team could be improved.
Either he overvalues his teams ability or he continually is unable to get them to perform at the level they are capable of.
Your serve mate :-)
07 Apr 2016 22:18:14
Thanks ed 001.
{Ed001's Note - you are welcome.}
07 Apr 2016 22:20:52
Ed,
We are 4th on wages and below 4th on player spend. Chelsea, Liverpool and City spent most on agent fees.
We aren't one player short - we are more than that away.
My 250m reflects the difference between us and top 3 spend over 5 years on players
The 250m is to help you always challenge
I don't need to be called foolish and might as well take a leaf out of Ed02s book and disappear for a while.
If you don't think money helps you win leagues then why do teams chase the best players? Why did we spend 40m on Ozil plus fees etc ( I get it)
Don't see many people asking us to sign 2 5m players from championship.
{Ed001's Note - you are not below 4th on player spend, the figures you are giving out are inaccurate. Disappear all you like, I really do not care one way or the other, you are quite simply quoting lies and trying to pass them off as facts.
As for the rest, have I said anything at all about money not helping to win championships? My point was that Arsenal are spending a lot more than you realise. Yes they are 4th on salaries, but they give out higher incentives than most, such as the biggest bonus in the Prem for the players when they qualify for the Champions League. Which probably goes a long way to explain the ludicrous title winning celebrations for finishing 4th each season.}